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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 22, 2009 18:12:09 GMT 12
"In Darwin they bought a hotel in town and turned it into their own accommodation. "
Hmm, will they buy The Rat Hole or The Crterion I wonder... ;D
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Post by beagle on Nov 22, 2009 19:37:13 GMT 12
They bought a hotel Dave, not a run down building.
But I am sure some families will come and they would not be expected to stay for a rotation in a hotel. Anyone asked our friend Heather Roy on this yet.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 22, 2009 19:52:33 GMT 12
God, imagine being a Singaporean Air Force family member all excited about going to a foreign land where Daddy is going to be a jet pilot, at some exotic sounding locale, Ohakea... and discovering you have the choice of living in Bulls, Sanson or worst of all, Palmerston North! Poor blighters.
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Post by phil on Nov 22, 2009 19:52:58 GMT 12
Perhaps they could buy flock house.
Lots of barrack accommodation there, MQs, Gym, Pool (which needs quite a bit of work), a large gym, mess etc etc.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 22, 2009 19:56:46 GMT 12
Do they still have buffaloes there? I looked out for the buffalo burger sign at the Mobil when we went through Bulls last week but couldn't see it. They used to grow the yummy bison at Flock House's farm. They make lovely burgers for endangered species.
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Post by obiwan27 on Nov 22, 2009 20:15:16 GMT 12
Hi everyone. I'm on holiday in Singapore at the moment and in Saturday's edition of the 'Straits Times' there was an article about the basing of a Unit in the US of the SAF's new F-15SG squadron for fighter training. In the article it stated that Singapore has other detachments in the US including F16's and Apache helicopters, All are based there to train with the US armed forces as there is much more available airspace for training purposes as well as the opportunity to train with the 'best of the best'. I can't find the article on the Straits Times website but here is an article to have a look at that tells you a little about it. Amazing what a switched on country that is serious about defence and strategic and international relationships is prepared and willing to do. If NZ has a chance at this kind of arrangement with Singapore I say go for it!! www.ktvb.com/video/featured-videos/Singapore-Air-Force-kicks-of-new-training-program-in-Idaho-70533172.html
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Post by yogi on Nov 22, 2009 20:57:54 GMT 12
very interesting stuff (thanks for the vid obiwan)
I cant help feeling that it should be us training with the U.S. mighty shame.
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Post by beagle on Nov 22, 2009 21:04:12 GMT 12
Hi everyone. I'm on holiday in Singapore at the moment and in Saturday's edition of the 'Straits Times' there was an article about the basing of a Unit in the US of the SAF's new F-15SG squadron for fighter training. In the article it stated that Singapore has other detachments in the US including F16's and Apache helicopters, All are based there to train with the US armed forces as there is much more available airspace for training purposes as well as the opportunity to train with the 'best of the best'. I can't find the article on the Straits Times website but here is an article to have a look at that tells you a little about it. Amazing what a switched on country that is serious about defence and strategic and international relationships is prepared and willing to do. If NZ has a chance at this kind of arrangement with Singapore I say go for it!! www.ktvb.com/video/featured-videos/Singapore-Air-Force-kicks-of-new-training-program-in-Idaho-70533172.htmlyou lucky bugger.... hot and muggy is it. i take it you were looking at checking out Boogie St but all gone now ?? how many fake rolex watches have you been enticed to buy. have you checked out the old defence hotel in canberra rd. owned by the US military now ? don't eat too much durian..
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Post by obiwan27 on Nov 23, 2009 3:46:46 GMT 12
very interesting stuff (thanks for the vid obiwan) I cant help feeling that it should be us training with the U.S. mighty shame. You're welcome Yogi!! I'm not sure that we should be training in the US but at least sending a unit to Hawaii or in this part of SEA would have been possible back in the day.....as for the future? ?
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Post by oldnavy on Nov 23, 2009 9:15:34 GMT 12
Re RSAF F16s in New Zealand when you don't have anything in comparison? Careful what you wish for!!
What will be the benefit for New Zealand?
They will not be your fighters, the people involved will be Singaporean. They don't even want too much local assistance because it defeats the purpose of have having their own independent capability. All they want is your open space, and even then they will want it for as close to nothing as they can get it. It will be a commercial arrangement where Singapore holds all the cards...not to mention the military force!
Think on this, how hard is it for a Kiwi citizen to join the ADF or the British Armed Forces? The answer is, "not all that hard." I know many who have done it.
By comparison, how hard is it for a Kiwi to join the Singapore Defence Force? Indeed, do you know anyone who has done it? They have very strict security and nationality criteria which most Kiwis would find onerous or impossible to comply with.
But then again, the way you guys are pulling back and caving in at the moment, and after my suggestion on several other threads, maybe Singapore is better placed to get you that NZ$1 million each? Bondi beckons!
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Post by mcmaster on Nov 23, 2009 13:16:12 GMT 12
I don't think there is anything wrong with NZ trading airspace for the economic and military benefit of having a unit of RSAF jets based there. Would the public support it though? Singapore is a close ally for Aust and NZ independent of entry requirements for their forces. I dont think there is any constraint on periodic basing for the RSAF jets at any Aust bases. Rockhampton is close to the ranges at Shoalwater where the Singa army/ tanks exercise, and has based RSAF jets before. Willi, amberley have space especially when one of the home sqns is away. The bare bases across the top end Scherger, Learmonth, Curtin have all the apron space/facilities in the world and the ADF would love to see em used given the cost of building the things. However permanent basing is a bit different.
I believe the ADF knocked back the Singa request for a permanent base for RSAF A4's at Amberley due noise ..and these planes ended up in France. The RSAF strategy of dispersed assets and training is very smart and good luck if NZ can get some of that.
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Post by yogi on Nov 23, 2009 17:57:06 GMT 12
very interesting stuff (thanks for the vid obiwan) I cant help feeling that it should be us training with the U.S. mighty shame. You're welcome Yogi!! I'm not sure that we should be training in the US but at least sending a unit to Hawaii or in this part of SEA would have been possible back in the day.....as for the future? ? well... i say we rope them in and "requisition" their jets for our own purposes ;D What do you mean you left your f-16's right here? we dont know what you are talking about............
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 23, 2009 18:51:33 GMT 12
I don't think there is anything wrong with NZ trading airspace for the economic and military benefit of having a unit of RSAF jets based there. Would the public support it though? The public of New Zealand are nowadays generally greedy, money-hungry consumerists. We have already allowed much of our airspace to be sold to overseas training already - in case people haven't noticed there are many flying training schools and aero clubs in NZ who are training pilots for overseas airlines and companies and making a profit from it. If the public takes a stand against the RSAF moving in, will they say anything about the millions being brought into the economy from civil schools doing the same thing? And after the "blow" that the Manawatu people apparently felt dealt to them when this Government declared Whenuapai wouldn't close, no doubt the community and councils, and most especially the Real Estate people who moaned so loudly, around Ohakea will champion this deal as a great triumph of New Zealand. We'll have to wait and see what happens and judge then if it's a good thing or not.
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Post by oldnavy on Nov 23, 2009 23:32:15 GMT 12
Come on guys! It really is a "no brainer!" Get some of your own jets, and then invite the RSAF. They will be just as grateful, and then the cards are stacked more evenly to ensure a commercially acceptable position, and it would be strategically safe .
Right now you have nothing! In those circumstances, do you seriously need foreign fighters permanently based in NZ? It sounds to me like a group of enthusiasts are thinking more about photo opportunities rather than your national interest.
Despite the fact that Singapore is a great ally, they are an independent country with their own motives and priorities. Would the conversation exist if we were talking about American bases? Your peace nicks would be all over it! There is no difference in this case, and having nothing yourself is effectively giving up the sovereign right to your own airspace! Someone else will own all the airborne fire power in your country.
If you are really that keen to give up so much sovereignty, why not become the seventh state of Australia? Or even bite the bullet and become South Singapore? Don't get angry, that is the tone of this thread!
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Post by yogi on Nov 24, 2009 21:00:57 GMT 12
Thats an interesting way to look at it O.N I prefer to look at it like this; At the very least it will make the media move on and focus on something else other than the skyhawk thing. Also perhaps it will help the public remember by way of in-the-face publicity that an a.c.f is not something we just had for 'fun' and perhaps we, after all, should have our own shiny batch of f-16s.
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Post by oldnavy on Nov 24, 2009 23:07:37 GMT 12
Yogi, I salute you and your optimism. You seriously seem to be taking the discussion forward. In the short time I have been following your comments, there are so many paths you have supported as potential solutions to what can only be described as a malaise that seems to be gripping New Zealanders at home. In this case, I understand what you are saying, but I cannot endorse it. Out in the world when you meet a Kiwi, you will invariably find them to be proud, ebullient and confident. I simply don't understand where all the misplaced pacificism and loser talk comes from when you find them at home? There are dozens of ways NZ could preserve national identity and sovereignty, ways which would restore fighting capability along with an apparently missing element of self respect to the RNZAF. Let's face it, the current state of your air force is abysmal. You can't even claim it has niche capabilities! Just a few small outfits which don't appear to be properly funded or supported. I mean the other day somebody in this forum was seriously talking about dropping Mk 82 bombs from P3s! Guys! That's not sensible in any way, shape or form. It's ridiculous!! You should be ashamed your only remaining warplanes have been so inappropriately driven to it! Bringing in a foreign and independent fighter force (of any kind) without the local ability to provide national checks and balances is capitulation. That means surrender! (Which to my mind is also ridiculous!) But then again...it's your country! Some of you seem hell bent on losing it...who am I to say anything... other than "Good luck?"
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Post by smithy on Nov 24, 2009 23:41:18 GMT 12
I have to admit that I'm not 100% thrilled if this is the case. IMHO if anybody should be using our airspace with fighter aircraft it really should be the Aussies. I am a strong supporter of one of two RAAF squadrons being based in NZ during part of the year and think that this would be far more beneficial. We are incredibly close countries in terms of history, culture and geographical strategic concerns. Not to mention half of us Kiwis are over here in Oz anyway
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Post by phil82 on Nov 25, 2009 10:55:02 GMT 12
Yogi, I salute you and your optimism. You seriously seem to be taking the discussion forward. In the short time I have been following your comments, there are so many paths you have supported as potential solutions to what can only be described as a malaise that seems to be gripping New Zealanders at home. In this case, I understand what you are saying, but I cannot endorse it. Out in the world when you meet a Kiwi, you will invariably find them to be proud, ebullient and confident. I simply don't understand where all the misplaced pacificism and loser talk comes from when you find them at home? There are dozens of ways NZ could preserve national identity and sovereignty, ways which would restore fighting capability along with an apparently missing element of self respect to the RNZAF. Let's face it, the current state of your air force is abysmal. You can't even claim it has niche capabilities! Just a few small outfits which don't appear to be properly funded or supported. I mean the other day somebody in this forum was seriously talking about dropping Mk 82 bombs from P3s! Guys! That's not sensible in any way, shape or form. It's ridiculous!! You should be ashamed your only remaining warplanes have been so inappropriately driven to it! Bringing in a foreign and independent fighter force (of any kind) without the local ability to provide national checks and balances is capitulation. That means surrender! (Which to my mind is also ridiculous!) But then again...it's your country! Some of you seem hell bent on losing it...who am I to say anything... other than "Good luck?" I think your perceptions are way out! There is no misplaced pacifism in NZ: Defence and what it does simply isn't an issue with the majority of people. It's a bit like the new Super Fifteenth Rugby Team from Australia....and from Melbourne of all places! Go out on the street in Melbourne and ask people what they think of that team and I guarantee you'll get a lot of blank looks! Defence in NZ, particularly Air Defence [which we've never had incidentally!] is a non-issue to a lot of people who don't know what Defence does, and couldn't care less anyway. That's not pacifism; just ignorance. Who says we are hell bent on losing our country? On what rational basis can you make such an off-beat and totally uninformed comment; if I may be so bold! ;D There is a lot of day-dreaming on this thread, and that's OK, not everyone who posts has in depth knowledge of how the air force works. The "SAF IN NZ" is yet another dream which doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and won't happen because it isn't an option that Singapore would consider. That's not a negative or pessimistic view on my part just a basic military assessment of the type I spent many years training to do! Military planning has to be real, not based on 'what ifs" or totally unrealistic themes! You know that, and I know that, but a lot of the people posting here don't appreciate what would be involved. That's not a criticism folks! The actual operation of the RNZAF in its present form is precisely a niche filler, although meeting the majority of NZ requirements. It cannot and is never intended to be anything other than a 'niche 'player in the general scheme of things. We operated quite comfortably in the Gulf War alongside the RAF, and were tasked as just another aircraft. Wherever we go we know that size isn't everything, but how you use it it can be relevant! We prove that every time we fly with an ally, and Australia is well aware of that fact.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 25, 2009 11:07:34 GMT 12
"Air Defence [which we've never had incidentally!] " Um, yes we have had. Once upon a time New Zealand had many fighter squadrons, divebomber squadrons and reconnaissance bomber squadrons giving this country excellent air defence. That was the 1940's. I think many would argue that the Vampire, Mustang and Mosquito fighters of the 1950's also provided a very adequate air defence at the time too. It's only since the hippy days of the 1960's when the baby boomers began to screw the world that air defence has declined in NZ. Even the Skyhawks were some form of air defence though, surely?
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Post by phil82 on Nov 25, 2009 13:45:20 GMT 12
"Air Defence [which we've never had incidentally!] " Um, yes we have had. Once upon a time New Zealand had many fighter squadrons, divebomber squadrons and reconnaissance bomber squadrons giving this country excellent air defence. That was the 1940's. I think many would argue that the Vampire, Mustang and Mosquito fighters of the 1950's also provided a very adequate air defence at the time too. It's only since the hippy days of the 1960's when the baby boomers began to screw the world that air defence has declined in NZ. Even the Skyhawks were some form of air defence though, surely? Those aircraft would have been undirected! Just having them wouldn't constitute air defence! Air Defence is comprised of many components, aircraft being just one. Even the Battle of Britain had radar, albeit primitive, and an Observer Corp to plot and relay information. We do not have now, and never have had any components of a complete air defence system, without which any aircraft would be useless, including the Skyhawks! ;D
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