Google Earth - Strathmore detention camp?

[Bruce]

I'm Not sure if this is the best place to put this thread - feel free to move somewhere better Dave!

I quite enjoy poking around on Google Earth looking for traces of historic structures, especially wartime bases etc. I have been looking for some of the less known wartime installations - internment camps.
For those not aware of what these were, these were where consientious objectors were held. Built in several locations in NZ by the Public Works Dept to a standard "better than prison but not as good as the Army". Some of these facilities such as Hautu near Turangi are still in use as prisons. Unfortunately very little material about these camps is available on the internet, as I dont think there was much published during the time they were operating.

Strathmore camp was the largest of the detention camps, located near Reporoa, between Rotorua and Taupo. I beleive I have found traces of it on Google Earth at the following location:

38°31'14.45"S 176°28'40.63"E

This seems to have a large tennis court of parade square surrounded by 1940s era houses and a large curving driveway.
What references I have found say the site was 30 Miles South of Rotorua, which matches this location almost exactly. It does seem to be some distance from "Strathmore Rd" which does exist nearer Reporoa.

Does anyone have any info on this site at all?
What I have read about the Consientious Objectors is quite interesting - there were some men of very strong character, regardless of their beliefs. Their conviction and conduct completely shame the modern "Peace Movement".

[The Red Baron]

Some tiny photos of the camp find.natlib.govt.nz/primo_library/libweb/action/search.do?vl(freeText0)=+Whenuaroa+Detention+Camp+(Subject)&vl(D31185043UI0)=sub&vl(35124698UI1)=all_items&vl(1UI0)=exact&fn=search&tab=default_tab&mode=Basic&vid=TF&scp.scps=

[katejohns]

Hi Bruce,

I just came across your post today having just been with my Poppa who was one of the conscientious objectors held at Strathmore. You seem interested in the COs and I thought perhaps you might be interested in hearing more from someone who has had the great fortune to spend time with one. I also wanted to thank you for what you wrote toward the end of your post. My Poppa was, and is, a hero to us; to stand up for something despite the enormous pressure to do otherwise is the utmost in courage to me and he continues to let us talk to him about it at the ripe old age of 98!!

[AussieBob]

If you look at this archived autograph book at the National Library website there are a number of sketches of the camp, and some interesting tales by the writers;

[a href="http://natlib.govt.nz/records/23033626?search[path]=items&search[text]=Whenuaroa"]http://natlib.govt.nz/records/23033626?search[path]=items&search[text]=Whenuaroa[/a]

Hint: It is not a simple site but if you go to "See original Record" and then "View archived copy online" the document can be zoomed and flipped thru the approx 50 or so pages. An interesting read.

Autograph book

Date: 26 Mar 1942-26 Mar 1946

Ref: MSX-8178

Autograph book from the Strathmore Detention Camp, 26 March 1942 to 26 March 1946. Includes ms illustrations.

Quantity: 1 volume(s).

DC Rights: Not restricted

Part of: Hancock, Derrick Corbett, 1915-2006 : Papers

Format: 1 volume(s), Manuscript
See original record

[flyjoe180]

I was only talking about these camps a few weeks back with my partner's Granddad who is a cousin of the Hillary brothers. Wrexford Hillary (Sir Ed's brother) spent time in a Detention Camp as a Conscientious Objector. This was probably, according to my partner's Granddad, due to the effects it had on their father Percival Hillary, who suffered what we now know to be PTSD after serving at Gallipoli. Edmund of course served with the RNZAF.

It is also interesting to note that even as late as 1946, when many of the foreign detainees had been released from these camps, conscientious objectors were still incarcerated.

[Dave Homewood]

Edmund Hillary was also an objector for a while till Japan came into the war and he realised the threat to New Zealand and his responsibilities to do something, and joined the RNZAF.

The objectors that I admirer most are not the ones who got themselves locked in a camp for the duration, but the many of them who said they would not fight but volunteered to become medics on the front lines and were in the thick of battle risking their lives with the infantry and other units, saving lives and doing something much more useful than being a political statement.

[flyjoe180]

Yeah well, I am not surprised that Edmund was objecting until the Japanese threat was apparent. Percival's Gallipoli diaries are very interesting reading. It was not until years after the end of the First World War that he descended into depression and his PTSD became apparent to everyone. That would have had a profound effect on the family.

[pjw4118]

Regarding the wider question of military prisons , do the NZDF still have one ?
And Bruce have you located the Ardmore camp on Google earth ? , wasnt it reinforced for the French agents after the Rainbow Warrior.

[Bruce]

Ardmore Prison camp is 37° 2'53.39"S 174°59'41.31"E
Not sure what it is used for now...

Its interesting that even now there is a certain sensitivity about discussing consientious objectors, and I guess it is an emotive subject, especially on a forum which recognises the sacrifice and service of combat servicemen. There were of course many objectors in the military who served in "non- killing" roles in combat. I was reading in a recent Flypast magazine about one of the top Photo Recon Spitfire pilots who was a Quaker who strongly opposed killing, but would willingly fly dangerous missions in unarmed PR aircraft.
At the same time those who held their beliefs so strongly that they were interred also showed a great level of courage and conviction - different beliefs are accepted and tolerated today but in the 1940s it took real commitment to go against the majority viewpoint - especially if it meant internment. Its certainly now time that the stigma attached to COs be put aside, and I think that the stories need to be told, as it is part of our social history.

[Dave Homewood]

To me it seems that there were three types, putting it basically. People who reaily volunteered to serve (almost all members of the RNZAF and RNZN and many thousands of the Army, as well as many women nurses, Tuis etc made up this group.)

Then there were those who were conscripted and readily went along with the inevitable - this was from 1941 onwards I believe, when you turned 18 you were eligable to be drawn by ballot and if your number came up you were in the Army.

The third group are those who felt that had a right to resist the conscription. These people were allowed the raight to appeal in front of a Senior Magistrate who heard the case and decided if the cause was worthy.

Amongst the appellants were men who may have been fit and well with no conviction one way or another, but they were in a Reserved Occupation where they worked in a hard to fill job in essential industry. Also farmers with a wife and two kids could appeal and get let off, as they were in essential industry but the wife and two kids made a difference over a single farmer for example, in the eyes of the law.

Some religions had a blanket get-out-of-the-Army free card, such as quakers and a few of the other fringe religions. Virtually all these in essential industry and those fully paid up in a religion like that would - if successful in their appeal - be instructed to join the Home Guard, and contribute towards the defence in that way, so they didn't get out of military service entirely. Those in industry would therefore be expected to work in their war work and then parade in the Home Guard. Those who maybe got off on religious grounds and were told to join the Home guard were also often directed under the Manpower Act to go into essential industry - this is something they had no choice over. So someone against kiling may have ended up building munitions by day and parading in a home defence unit by night.

And nothing is cut and dry. As I have mentioned, many objectors became medics and went with the different Army Divisions to the front lines where they performed very bravely indeed. Several of them lost their lives trying toi save others. Not all medics were objectors of course, many were volunteers who found themselves simply placed into the medical corps. Some were doctors in civil life. it was a mixed bag. I have talked with infantry soldiers who have told me they had nothing but utter respect for the medics who were contientious objectors too.

I am sure, as Bruce has said, they must have found their way into many other roles too within the armed forces. Not all will have come out with their ideals publicly right at the start and only realised after some service they had to speak up. I don't doubt that there must have been a lot of such men in the Army, Air Force and Navy training system at home I'd think.

So I cannot help thinkin that - and I am fully open to being told I'm wrong as I have never met one of these people - but those who ended up in a detention camp had to have been at the extreme end of the scale, and they must have been either religious extremists who wouldn't be shifted from their beliefs, or - and I'm sure many were this - political activists who hoped to make a political statement against the policies of the war. Could there possibly have been any other kind in these camps?

[vansvilla]

Look out for a NZ produced film called Field Punishment No 1. It is being filmed in and around Auckland now by Lippy Productions.
I have been on one of the sets depicting trenches in France, it was a very surreal experience standing in them and imagining the hardships endured by young men.

[ErrolC]

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll keep an eye out for it.

I had a great-uncle who was a CO medic in Italy.

[Dave Homewood]

CO as in Commanding Officer?

[ErrolC]

Conscientious Objector.

[Dave Homewood]

Ah sorry, I should have clicked, my brain wasn't in gear.

[Peter Lewis]

Mar 19, 2013 20:59:00 GMT 12 Bruce said:

Ardmore Prison camp is 37° 2'53.39"S 174°59'41.31"E
Not sure what it is used for now...

Many, many, years ago I dated a girl who's father was OC Ardmore Military Detention Centre.

I never went there, but I did hear a few interesting stories.

[steve]

Not sure if it has been mentioned that there is a book published about the NZ detention camps which I bought 20 years ago. Apparently NZ was very tough to the objectors compared to UK which did not imprison as a matter of course.

Those French agents were imprisoned at the Ardmore camp . I remember when I was in the ambulance service attending a medical situation near the entrance and I noticed some sand bag reinforced zones on the road leading in to the complex..

[brucev]

Hi Bruce.

You will find that the correct location of the Strathmore detention camp is approximately 38°48'39.62"S 176°33'98.13"E. It was at the end of Anzio Rd, Reporoa. As a child in the early sixties I remember playing around some of the concrete foundations / paths remains.

You made mention of the name, "Strathmore". The larger area was earlier known as the Strathmore Block or Strathmore Station, hence Strathmore Road on which I grew up.

WHENUAROA DETENTION CAMP - for Conscientious Objectors at Strathmore Reporoa - during war years

Prisoner at the Bar “Having been conscripted and because of your refusal to obey a lawful command to serve in his Majesty’s forces for the duration of hostilities, I sentence you to be detained in a place of detention until released by order in council.”

And so they came in their hundreds from the length and breadth of this land, rich and poor, of every religious persuasion and many of none. Artisans of every calling. . . .professional men and labourers to serve out their sentence for the duration of the war.

The transfer from the notoriously rowdy state prisons where they were held pending processing and transfer to the silence of the vast scrub covered area of Whenuaroa, occupied as it was by rabbits, pukeko and the occasional deer, must have been a traumatic psychological shock.

Camp facilities consisted of an Administration building, a Cookhouse and Mess Hall, an Ablution Block and a five bed Camp Hospital all contained within a barbed wire compound. Detainees were housed in single huts and prior to the arrival of an electric Generator plant, lighting was by candle.

The transition from private homes, to crowded mess halls-from china to tin mugs and plates, from spring mattresses to slatbeds and palliasses from comfortable clothes to prison attire and ill fitting boots was to many a change that was difficult to come to terms with. The isolation of the area and the restriction of visitors and mail and the bitter cold of winter were the underlying causes of unrest and in some cases the outright refusal of some inmates to obey Camp Rules resulting in their appearance before a Stipendiary Magistrate and inevitably a return to Mt Eden prison for the duration.

The permanent staff consisted in most cases, men who manpowered from civilian life and covered for the armed forces. Because of the isolation, the lack of social contacts and the primitive transport available, turnover of staff was large. Transport in the canopy covered camp truck was a most uncomfortable experience. Passengers were required to get out and push through the mud on unmetaled sections in winter and in summer were literally smothered in fine pumice dust. The hospital Matron, fresh from a large city hospital was subjected to this ordeal each time she left camp to go on leave or to attend to hospital business in Rotorua.

Opportunities for physical recreation were limited to the size of the compound, and Mess Halls, huts and Administration Buildings, occupied most of the space. This lack of sporting facilities did not greatly concern those who had spent the day on the end of a shovel or slasher, cutting scrub and digging postholes. The long trudge back to Camp at the end of a day, sapped the very last energy that may have in happier circumstances been utilized in sport.

The weather was either very hot or very cold, the work tedious and repetitive but the physical condition and health of inmates was maintained by a plentiful supply of good food, mostly home grown - early nights (lights out at 9pm) no alcohol and limited supplies of prison issue tobacco. Under the watchful eye of the Matron who supervised sick parade each morning, mental stresses and illnesses were minimised and professionally and promptly attended to.

It was obvious in the main those who chose to be called conscientious objectors were from the well educated strata of society, skilled tradesman, and professionals of every kind. It was always possible to obtain expert advice and technical help with whatever problem arose in that isolated spot. Among the inmates could be found those with legal training, teachers, mathematicians, surveyors, electrical engineers and skilled tradesmen of every kind.

Although facilities for study were not provided by the authorities, those who wished to do so continued to study for higher qualifications with material provided by relatives and friends, with outstanding results.

Life at the base Camp of Whenuaroa varied little during the duration and upon cessation of hostilities the Camp was rapidly disbanded and the buildings removed. Little remains today to remind one that on that very spot, close to 1,000 men lived and worked for nearly six years.

During that time inmates had loyally assisted the administration as accountants, typists, cooks, hospital orderlies and engineers. All received the same pay of twenty-one pence per day.

There existed a remarkable record of harmony among the incarcerated and a tolerance among those of different political and religious views. This willingness to co-operate with authority and perhaps above all else a pride in the work they were required to do, avoided many situations that could have been difficult and indeed dangerous to contain.

CONCHIE CAMP - by Mr D Walker

This was a large self supporting camp and was situated on Anzio Road. The men came from all walks of life so they manufactured a large variety of goods. They had their own transport to bring in their supplies. They had a diesel engine for generating electricity, which later went to Curry’s Mill.

They also had a large recreation hall, offices etc. There was considerable hard feeling that they should be so well cared for while the settlers sons went away to war.

However, they did carry on with the development work on the land clearing scrub by hand. This had formerly been done by the unemployed. They built the dressing sheds at Butchers Pool, carved out Halcrows Road by shovel and wheelbarrow, as most public works were carried out at that time. Some cut posts and battens from the bush, under the supervision of Mr Ron Scott.

After the war this camp became a depot for the Lands and Survey Department. Mr Jack Gear lived in what is now Pearson’s house and Mr Scott in Finnerty’s house.

With the end of the war, the Conscientious Objectors Camp at Strathmore had closed and the various buildings there were offered for willing buyers. It wasn’t long before the cookhouse building was seen to be on the move towards the village on the back of a large truck. Soon the building was in position on the Post Office site and the necessary renovations and additions were completed.

[camtech]

Mar 19, 2013 13:29:59 GMT 12 pjw4118 said:

Regarding the wider question of military prisons , do the NZDF still have one ?
And Bruce have you located the Ardmore camp on Google earth ? , wasnt it reinforced for the French agents after the Rainbow Warrior.

Not sure if it was reinforced, but Priuer (the female agent) was held at Christchurch Women's prison. When the order came for their release, she was flown Wigram - Auckland on board an RNZAF Friendship. I found out when I arrived at work (NATTS) in the morning to find a very peeved off Duty Crew, who had been called out for a SAR mission, which turned out to be the transfer flight. Even the flight crew only found out very shortly before take off.

[tbf2504]

Les, for years the Services Correction Establishment (SCE) was based at Papakura. When that base closed down it was transferred to Burnham where I believe it still operates.
The two French agents are an interesting story as once they got to Auckland they were flown to Tahiti in a P-3. Both signed the travelling F700 to mark the completion of as they put it "Their NZ holiday"