Help Finding RNZAF PV-2 Harpoon photos

[zman280]

I've been looking through all the RNZAF books and back-dated Wings magazines from the 60's and 70's and can't find a single photo of one. Are there any known photos of the 3 RNZAF Harpoons?

Did they even make it to New Zealand?

Thanks

[shorty]

Four made it to NZ but were then returned to Hawaii. I have at least one photo somewhere.

[zman280]

Thanks shorty, Is there any chance of get that photo up at some time? I've just got the 1/72 Special Hobby PV2 Harpoon and I'd like to see a RNZAF example

[errolmartyn]

There was a three-part article on the Harpoon published in the AHSNZ Journals of Feb & May 1974 and May 1975. A photo of a Harpoon on the ground in RNZAF markings appears on the cover of the May 1974 issue. The serial is partially obscured, so which of the four it represents is not known.

Another photo of a Harpoon, taken air-to-air, in RNZAF markings (but possibly these have been touched in?) appears on page 44 of 'Aircraft of the Royal New Zealand Air Force' by Duxbury, et al.

Errol

[shorty]

[Dave Homewood]

I'd like to know who the crewswere that delivered and returned them, and how much flying they got in while in New Zealand. There must have been pilots lining up for a try in them, especially when it was known the order had been cancelled.

They most probably received their RNZAF markings at Kaneohe I guess, like the Venturas did.

[zman280]

Thanks shorty, That's a big help to know that at least one of the four didn't have fin flashes.

[errolmartyn]

Oct 10, 2010 15:30:39 GMT 12 shorty said:

This is the same photo that appears on the AHSNZ Journal cover that I mentioned earlier. It's credited to J M McCready, who was a pilot and an officer in the wartime RNZAF, so it may have been taken by him rather than an official RNZAF photographer.

Errol

[Bruce]

I've Built a 1/72 Harpoon, but from the Rareplanes Vac Form Kit. (with fittings from an Academy PV1) The Harpoon is a really businesslike machine - although very similar to the Ventura, There is something about it that just seems "gruntier"!

The Harpoon is to the right in this pic of my Lockheed twins:

[ErrolC]

While on the subject of Harpoons, here's a great story involving a US veteran of them.

tailspinstales.blogspot.com/2010/10/last-flight.html

[ZacYates]

Superb models, Bruce! I'm keen to do a Hudson in the two-tone scheme seen on the lefthand machine.

Can anyone tell me the differences between a Ventura and PV2? I am falling increasingly in love with the Lockheed twins, especially seeing more of the RNZAF examples and the Vintage Aircraft PV-2D recovery last week in the US.

[Bruce]

The most obvious differences were the bigger tail fins, but they also had larger outer wing panels with squarer tips, and the gun pack under the nose, which was optional on Venturas, became standard. The cockpit canopy was different, with solid glazing on one side, and I think the undercarriage and engines were also beefed up to cope with higher weights.

[Dave Homewood]

Oct 10, 2010 20:41:33 GMT 12 ZacYates said:

I am falling increasingly in love with the Lockheed twins

Good lad. Give it time and I'll have you thinking the same about Vincents and Baffins too.

[zman280]

That's a spectacular line up you have there Bruce, I love the lockheed twin family of aircraft. Would you be able to give me a run down on what kits you have used?

[Bruce]

The Hudson is the Airfix Mk III (I have the Italeri kit in my stash, but that is a P&W powered Mk V it has less interesting schemes)
The C60 Lodestar is the airmodel Vac Form fuselage on an Airfix Hudson donor kit.
The Harpoon is the Rareplanes vacform
The PV1 Ventura is the Academy kit - I did this model a long time ago, and I will replace it shortly with a better example of the same kit.
The RB34 Lexington is the Academy "British Ventura" with the Martin turret from the PV1 installed.
Hope that helps!

[camtech]

Somewhere in my notes I have some logbook information from one of the delivery and return flights of our PV2's
The photo above is believed to have been taken at Guadalcanal on delivery, but I will check the logbook info when I get back from Christchurch next weekend.

[camtech]

Just some quick comments - one of the ferry pilots was E St J Spicer, who ferried NZ4702 and 4704 out and returned the same two aircraft to Hawaii. Reviewing my notes, I believe the photo above is actually NZ4702, taken at Guadalcanal during the return ferry flight to Hawaii, on 11 May 1945.

Spicer was attached to 1 Sqdn and carried out some refamiliaristion flying on Hudson NZ2057 prior to departing on NZ3512 to Santo 16 Feb 1945. Departing on 19 Feb, he flew on a PBY 7079 via Funafuti. Canton, Palyra to Pearl Harbour. With Flt Lt Tarrant, he carried out test flights in NZ4702 on 12, 14 and 16 March. He departed Kaneohe en route to Palmyra and Canton on 17 March, then next day Canton to Nausori, 19 March Nausori to Whenuapai, and finally 21 March Whenuapai to Rukuhia.

On 29 March, Spicer again departed, this time on NZ3504, flying from Whenuapai to Santo. He departed Santo 5 April, this time aboard a PB2Y-2 (83659), flying the same route as above to Pearl Harbour. NZ4704 was test flown on 9 April, and departed next day on the ferry trip, over the same route as its sister ship as far as Nausori, then flew to Norfolk is, overnighting on 12 April, arriving at Whenuapai on 13 April.

At this stage the decision had been made not to accept the Harpoon as a Ventura replacement, so NZ4704 departed Whenuapai on the return ferry flight on 16 April, retracing the original ferry flight in reverse, arriving back at Kaneohe on 20 April. Spicer left Hawaii on 24 April on C-54 698473, heading for Johnson Is. Next day the C-54 took him to Kwajalien Is and on to Guadalcanal. NZ3504 again was the aircraft returning Spicer to NZ, flying to Santos on 25 April, then to Whenuapai 26 April.

On 8 May, Spicer flew in NZ2057 from Whenuapai to Rukuhia, returning to Whenuapai in NZ4702. He departed on the return ferry trip the next day, flying to New Caledonia. The following day, he flew New Caledonia-Tontouta-Guadalcanal, overnighting for two nights. On 12 April he flew to Canton via Funafuti, thenthe next day flew to Palmyra. He completed the final leg to Kaneohe on 14 may.

His return to NZ started on C-54 45674, flying from Pearl Harbour to Kwajalein via Johnson on 23 April, and next day to Guadalcanal. NZ3503 was his chariot for the leg Guadalcanal to Santos 25 May and on to NZ the following day.

Spicer had an interesting service career, and I believe his log books may be in the RNZAF Museum. Extracts from them and his diaries appeared in Journals of the AHSNZ quite a few years back and make interesting reading.

Hope that helps to fill a few gaps and may elicit delivery information for the other two PV-2's, if indeed both were delivered.

[Dave Homewood]

I wish I had known that 'Spic' Spicer's logbooks were in the Air Force Museum when I was there researching last year. He was indeed an interesting chap. Did his logbooks mentioin crew who flew on these ferry flights? Usually they took at least a Wireless operator and Navigator when transiting on these ferry flights. I wonder who flew the other two and if it was one pilot delived/returned both aircraft with them too.

[camtech]

Dave, I could be wrong, but worth checking. The other alternative is to track down Bill Cowan, who I think wrote the AHSNZ articles. I have seen him on "Old Friends", so may be able to find him through there.

My notes don't show crew details as I didn't have time to get to that depth. But logbooks will show the crew.

Discussions with other researchers many years ago cast some doubt on the other two aircraft making the trip to NZ, but I would love to be proven wrong.

[Dave Homewood]

Oct 10, 2010 14:25:53 GMT 12 errolmartyn said:

Another photo of a Harpoon, taken air-to-air, in RNZAF markings (but possibly these have been touched in?) appears on page 44 of 'Aircraft of the Royal New Zealand Air Force' by Duxbury, et al.

I have just been looking at that photo, and though I have looked at it 1000 times before I only just realised that it is not a Harpoon, but it is in fact a PV-1 Ventura. Look at the tail, the Harpoon's tail is totally different from the Ventura's, with bigger, squarer fins and rudder, that sit flush onto the horizontal stabiliser. But in the photo the fins are the thinner, smoothly curved Ventura fins with the horizontal stab carrying on through the fin about 500mm. Plus the whole aircraft doesn't look chunky and meaty enough to be a PV-2. I'm sure it is a PV-1 air to air. I'm amazed that David, Ross and Ross got that wrong.