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Post by Laurent Viton on Feb 26, 2005 20:11:10 GMT 12
Hello gentlemen , I'm doing research on all airmen downed in the Rouen-Dieppe-Le Havre area during WW2 , amongst them RNZAF pilots. Many crash-sites have been pinpointed. I would like to hear from relatives of three pilots : - F/Sgt William K. Mawson , Sq 486 , downed by flak flying Typhoon EJ956 on March 24 , 1943. Pow. - F/Sgt Robert R. Campbell , Sq 247 , downed by Luftwaffe ace Horst Hannig , flying Typhoon DN431 on April 15, 1943 . Kia , buried Le Havre. - F/Sgt Fred D. Clark , Sq 485 , downed by a german fighter at Vatteville-la-Rue flying Spitfire EN631 on August 22, 1943. Kia , buried Pont-Audemer. Any information and pictures are most welcome. Thank you !
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Post by turboNZ on Feb 26, 2005 20:18:13 GMT 12
Hi Laurent.
Dave's your man here, he should be able to help you. You could always contact the Wigram Museum here in NZ They may be able to help you also.http://www.airforcemuseum.co.nz/
Good luck,
Cheers Chris
(TNZ)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 26, 2005 20:43:49 GMT 12
Hi Laurent,
welcome to the new forum.
Have you been in touch with Max Collett who runs the No. 485 Squadron Association? This is seperate from the UK based Association I believe. Max lives in Christchurch, NZ, I think. Not only does he run the Assoc. but he was in the squadron as a pilot.
If you need it, I can PM you his email
Also there is a very good book on No. 486 Sqn by Paul Sortehaug called "The Wild Winds" (ISBN 1-877139-09-2. ) Have you been able to consult that? If not, let me know and I''' check into the 486 Sqn chap when I get to the library on Monday.
Cheers Dave
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Post by Henk Welting on Feb 27, 2005 1:41:38 GMT 12
Where on the French map could I find "Vatteville-la-Rue"? Regards from Holland - have a nice weekend, Henk.
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Post by Laurent Viton on Feb 27, 2005 3:11:48 GMT 12
Hello everyone , Henk first : Vatteville-la-Rue is located on the left bank of the Seine river , 20 miles east Le Havre , in the forest of Brotonne. Thanks to all , and yes I'll appreciate Max Collett 's e-mail about Sq 485 losses . My goal is a book to honour airmen sacrifice in my area , that's why I'm looking for documentation , I think relatives would accept to share what they have ( log books , letters ...) as more personal mementos . I'll soon have another list of RNZAF pilots downed here . laurent.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 27, 2005 11:09:07 GMT 12
Hi Laurent, as you're not a member I cannot send you a private message. Can you email me please and I'll pass on Max Collett's email. dave_daasnz@hotmail.com I think what you're doing is a wonderful project. Well done and good luck with it all. I know a chap, Stevin Oudshoorn in Holland, who is doing a similar thing. Here is his site www.basher82.nl/
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Post by baz62 on Oct 26, 2008 9:55:12 GMT 12
Are these losses actually RNZAF or New Zealanders serving in the RAF. Not nitpicking just curious.
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Post by angelsonefive on Oct 30, 2008 19:30:40 GMT 12
baz,
From the NZ Fighter Pilot Museum Memorial Roll :
Flight Sergeant R.R.Campbell. NZ411858. RNZAF.
Pilot Officer F.D.Clark. NZ414590. RNZAF.
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Post by baz62 on Oct 31, 2008 14:30:02 GMT 12
Thanks Ray. So I presume they(as in most of the NZers) joined up with the RNZAF and did their basic training here (and later Canada and UK) then served in a RAF Squadron or a RAF squadron specifically manned with New Zealanders (485,486,487 etc).
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 31, 2008 16:04:40 GMT 12
Thanks Ray. So I presume they(as in most of the NZers) joined up with the RNZAF and did their basic training here (and later Canada and UK) then served in a RAF Squadron or a RAF squadron specifically manned with New Zealanders (485,486,487 etc). If they went through the EATS, then technically they joined the RNZAF and were seconded to the RAF. I think I have a quote giving the split between RAF and RAF(NZ) sqn service in a book that I will check in the morning. There were a few hundred NZers who joined the RAF direct pre- (and very early?) War.
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Post by angelsonefive on Nov 1, 2008 12:38:00 GMT 12
As far as I know people could enlist in the RAF from NZ, pre-war. Guys would take the interviews, medical and education tests here, and if successful travel to the UK at HM Government's expense.
Others seem to have travelled at their own expense and enlisted in England.
I imagine, though, that this largely came to a halt from September 1939 and guys simply joined the RNZAF .
There would have been too many NZ'ers coming through the training system for the ' New Zealand ' squadrons to absorb, so before long Kiwis would have been scattered throughout the RAF.
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Post by ErrolC on Nov 1, 2008 14:31:25 GMT 12
There would have been too many NZ'ers coming through the training system for the ' New Zealand ' squadrons to absorb, so before long Kiwis would have been scattered throughout the RAF. Other way around, the 'Article XV' squadrons weren't formed for a while (see Wikipedia and the sources it provides for detail) they went to general RAF squadrons and were partially concentrated later.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 2, 2008 20:02:39 GMT 12
Yes the RAF sent recruiters to New Zealand in the 1930's who signed up New Zealanders for the RAF pre-war. As well as what Ray describes, the RNZAF assisted some men with their RAF enlistments and took care of medicals and exams on behalf of the RAF. Also some of them were trained by the RNZAF to basic flying standard before going to the UK - at the RAF's expense. others were trained at aero clubs here before going over.
Now, as for the RNZAF men who went through the EATS or BCATP and who were sent to the UK, they were merely attached to RAF squadrons but they remained RNZAF and under RNZAF jurisdiction. Their wellbeing was the responisbility of the NZ High Commissioner to Great Britain, Bill Jordan, who made it his mission to ensure the RNZAF men were well cared for and their interests looked after. There were also high ranking officers attached to London to oversee the RNZAF men there (Keith Caldwell was one of them). If any RNZAF man thought he was getting a bum deal he could ring Bill Jordan and Bill would overrule any RAF ruling if appropriate. He also toured stations checking on kiwis' morale and ensuring none were kept on ops too long, etc. Bill Jordan was responsible for arranging for several men I have interviewed to get their attachment to the RAF revoked so they could come home, after they'd done 4 years or so.
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Post by mdonelan on Jul 20, 2010 8:07:21 GMT 12
Hi Laurent. I'm 5 years behind the ball on this one, but I am the great nephew of one of these gentleman, Fraser Dudley Clark (not Fred as you had thought). While I have limited information right now that I could offer you, I would be fascinated to know if you had come up with anything yourself in your research. I have an account of the battle in which he was shot down, but not much more just yet. Anything you (or anyone else) could provide would be hugely appreciated.
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Post by angelsonefive on Jul 22, 2010 21:33:36 GMT 12
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Post by angelsonefive on Jul 22, 2010 21:45:43 GMT 12
Hi Laurent. I'm 5 years behind the ball on this one, but I am the great nephew of one of these gentleman, Fraser Dudley Clark (not Fred as you had thought). While I have limited information right now that I could offer you, I would be fascinated to know if you had come up with anything yourself in your research. I have an account of the battle in which he was shot down, but not much more just yet. Anything you (or anyone else) could provide would be hugely appreciated. I thought you might like to see this... www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2320879
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Post by mdonelan on Jul 22, 2010 22:43:44 GMT 12
Amazing, thank you so much.
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Post by scollins on Mar 22, 2012 20:45:21 GMT 12
Hi Laurent,
my name is Stephen Collins I was just browsing and came across this thread not sure if your still checking it, but if you are my grand father was William Knapton Mawson and would love to exchange information if your still interested, and also for anything you may have uncovered.
Cheers
Steve
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Post by Tony on Mar 23, 2012 14:08:05 GMT 12
For those who haven't seen it before: Mawson's Typhoon (EJ956 SA-I) was repaired by the Luftwaffe and flown with 2./Versuchsverband O.b.d.L. as Wnr. 0956 T9+GK, On the 10th August it turned over in a forced-landing near Meckelnfeld. The pilot escaped injury.
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Post by chinapilot on Mar 24, 2012 12:08:46 GMT 12
Macfire...do you know the story behind this?
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