Chocks away for Bomber Command Vets

[pjw4118]

The NZBCA has charted the Warbirds Dakota ( Fly DC3 ) to attend the AdAstra lunch at Classic Flyers in Tauranga. AVM Lintott will talk to the group about the RNZAF today.
In all some 40 veterans will attend the lunch , 20 coming on the DC3.
We have 8 pilots,4 navigators, a bomb aimer and engineer,a full set of gunners and a W/Op , RAF Rescue Doctor plus a Halton brat if something mechanical needs mending.
Take off, 10.30, arrive 1115, depart 1500 arrive Ardmore 1545.
If you are at either airport there will be photo opportunities.
We will get some shots for posting.
Of interest to NZ Squadron followers we will have veterans of 75, 486, 487 and 488 aboard.

[Dave Homewood]

Who is going from No.'s 487 and 488 Squadorn, Peter?

[pjw4118]

Our president Bunny Burrows was a nav on 487 and Reg Mitchell a pilot on 488. Bunny stayed in the RNZAF finally finishing in the 1960s as Admin Officer at Lacaula Bay. Reg left the RNZAF for a sales job in Bycrofts.

[Dave Homewood]

Has Richard interviewed them both? I'm sure he's done one with Bunny, not heard of Reg though.

[pjw4118]

Dave , I dont think that Richard has interviewed him, he is a real live wire and just moved down from Northland.I will post some of his pictures soon. I will email his contact.
Peter

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Peter, sounds good.

[pjw4118]

A beautiful day and a full load of Bomber Command Veterans and aviators in "NZ3546" for lunch at classic Fliers and an address by AVM Graham Lintott. Bob McNeil and TV3 crew bummed a ride.



1. Pratt and Whitney power



2. Pre op briefing by Captain Morris Craig



3. Crew lineup: pilots, navs, engineers, w/ops and gunners



4. L to R Bill Petersen (pilot Halifax), Des Andrewes (Nav Lancaster), Ron Mayhill (B/A Lancaster), Des Hall (F/E Lancaster)



5. Roy Montrowe DFC (pilot Wellingtons and PFF MOsquitos) with over 9000 hours on NAC DC3 aircraft in the check seat.



6. More room than a 737 cabin



7. No anti terrorist doors here



8. 3546 arrived within minutes of the AVM Beechcraft and drew quite a crowd



9. Captain Morris Craig and First Officer James Langley (a full time 777 captain on Brunei)



10. The AVM with Les Munro



11. NZBCA executive Lineup L to R President Bunny Burrows (Nav Stirlings, Lancasters, Mosquitoes on 487), AVM Lintott, Roy Montrowe, Ron Mayhill, Des Andrewes



12. Committee Line up at Classic Flyers hangar
Roy Montrowe, Bunny Burrows, Les Munro, PJW4118



13. Fed, watered and briefed by the AVM, The 'crew' march to embarkation



14. James Langley handling the approach to Ardmore



15. Finals onto 07
A great thanks to the Ad Astra Club and Classic Flyers. Good to see Dave and Glen Turner there.

[furyfb11]

Great photo's Thanks for posting.

[John L]

James Langely - any relation to Brian Langely?

[Dave Homewood]

Super photos Peter. It was a wonderful day. I posted the following on another thread here:
rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Airshows&thread=12270&page=1
I think it is more appropriate here.

I was very fortunate to be able to attend the Christmas Luncheon of the Ad Astra Club at Classic Flyers Museum, Tauranga today. Many thanks to Mel Salisbury for kindly giving me a lift to Tauranga and being a real life saver.

The event was for RNZAF and other Air Force veterans (mostly WWII) of the Ad Astra Club which nis based in Tauranga, but also invited along were members of the Bomber Command Association, many of whom came down in the charted Dakota. And there were other interested folk and historians there too.

Some of the veterans I had met and interviewed before. It was nice to catch up again with Les Munro, he is a legend and such a nice bloke. I got to see some good friends such as Peter Wheeler, Larry Hill, Warren Denholm, Phil Furner and Diane at the museum. And I finally got to meet several other friends face to face whom I'd only known via the forum or email before, such as Mel already mentioned, Stu Boyes, Glen Turner, Andrew Gormlie, Graham Clayton (who's next book on No. 488 (NZ) Squadron is not far away from publication too.). And I met another forum member, Mel Douglas, who had some wonderful side profile artworks he's done and will release soon as prints.

A highlight was the talk by the guest speaker, Air Vice Marshal Graham Lintott, who gave a great talk on the current state of the RNZAF plus its near future. Afterwards I was pleased to meet him in person and have a chat, he's a very nice chap.

Many thanks to the Ad Astra group, especially Ray Stratford, and to the Classic Flyers Museum staff for a woinderful event. It was great to meet old friends nad make new ones. There were around 90 people there all told I guess, plus local photogaphers and TV3 news reporter Bob McNeil and his crew. And I have to add that the meal the caterers put on was fantastic and got great comments all round at our table.

[oggie2620]

Did you bump into Glen as he was there Dave... Said it was worth the 5 hours there and back. I am so jealous of you guys so will have to go to the BCA one next year!
Dee

[Dave Homewood]

Yes, I mentioned in the post above yours that I got to finally meet Glen, after years of knowing him online.

[pjw4118]

Oggie , the NZBCA / Ad astra have four luncheoans a year plus the normal wreath laying dates. You would be very welcome . Just arrive and we will look after the rest.
Peter

[Dave Homewood]

It perhaps should be mentioned that the veterans at this luncheon were not all Bomber Command veterans. I spotted a couple of friends there who were not in Bomber Command - one was a Wireless Operator-Air Gunner in Hudsons and Venturas of the RNZAF, and the other was a fighter pilot who flew Corsairs in the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm.

[pjw4118]

Yes Dave the NZBCA accepts that there were those who coudnt handle four engines were consigned to the Pacific !!! Won,t that creat a storm !!!
No the fact is all those who shared in the wartime RNZAF are welcome in the BCA and the good natured sparks still fly.
It was a great day
Peter

[Dave Homewood]

The Ad Astra group also welcomes all types of WWII airmen too, doesn't it?

I know you meant it with tongue in cheek Peter, but you might agree that in many ways Bomber Command had it easy compared with the Pacific bomber and fighter guys, with comforts between raids such as nice Mess accommodation and well stocked bars, local pubs, WAAF's, normality of town/city life off base and nice places to go on leave, etc. Meanwhile the Pacific guys put up with heat, tropical downpours, tropical disease, 70 degree heat in the cockpit at ground level, rats in their foxholes, shark and snake infested waters to fly over, dreadful tinned and powdered food, Washing Machine Charlie every night, Malaria and Atabrin, lack of decent sanitation, flies, scorpions, land crabs, snipers taking pot shots from the edge of your camp and runway..... the list of things the chaps in the Pacific went through could go on and on. Oh yes, and the Japs too. They tell me it was never a nice place to be on the bombing runs over Rabaul and other airfields and installations as the Jap gunners were pretty good at their jobs, etc too. And the thought that if you bailed out and were captured there was no Geneva Convention and Red Cross to keep them safe.

I admire the Bomber Command chaps immensely and could not begin to imagine what they went through but I feel it is often forgotten that our guys who served in the air in the Pacific (many of whom had also served in Bomber Command earlier) went through hell too, a whole different hell. And none of them needed four engines (apart fromt he Sunderland transport guys carrying the mail).

[oggie2620]

Thanks pjw... I may be able to take you up on that sometime...
Dave must have missed Glens name when I read it. He says it was great to meet you too after talking for this long..
Am just reading Aircrew Unlimited by John Golley. Pity there was only a page and a bit about NZ. However he does finish with them and there is a great quote "New Zealands war record stands on its own. The contribution made by the Navy, Army and AIR FORCE (my caps) was incalculable, but in no way overshadowed the immense value of its air training programme."

[pjw4118]

Yes Dave it took a very special person to volunteer in the first place and not know what would happen in the future. I am consistently awed by their attitude as so often the RNZAF was the first choice as the accepted 18 year olds, I think that the Army was 20 for overseas service.
Each theatre of war did have its special set of nasties and it would be dumb to try and compare them, I guess just the sheer number of casualties in RAF BC always makes me stop and think, thank goodness these giuys did it.

[Dave Homewood]

The RNZAF age for overseas service was 20, unless you had the written permission of a parent or guardian and then it was 18.

Indeed it was hugely brave to volunteer without any real knowledge of what they were going to be in for. Some of the Fleet Air Arm pilots I have interviewed said they had volunteered for the RNZAF and were on the long waiting list for training when the Royal Navy approached them with an offer to switch to the FAA which meant you went into training overseas immediately. Most of them signed without a second thought, without having any clue as to what the Fleet Air Arm actually was. One said it was only after he signed the dotted line and sent back the form that he received an info pack on what he'd signed for. Shades of taking the King's Shilling from days of old. None seem to have regretted it though from those who I talked with.

I was not really trying to compare the theatres, indeed that is a bit stupid. Both had their trials and tribulations and Bomber Command made far more sacrifice in terms of lives lost whereas the Pacific guys did lose some crews but were largely lucky in that respect, and their sacrifice was more in living conditions than loss of life.

I just feel that the Pacific flyers, particularly the bomber reconnaissance guys, are all too easily forgotten. They were doing hugely valuable and dangerous work just like their mates in Britain. Same goes for the guys in the Middle East and North Africa, and down in the India/Burma front. I tend to think that Bomber Command and Fighter Command in Britain gets more of the cudos and glory because they were there for public to see at home and thus got a great deal of publicity during and after the war (and rightly so). Whereas the guys in the jungles of Burma, the sandy strips of Egypt or the coral strips of the Pacific are less public profile in the eyes of the average Joe Bloggs than the guys who were based in Britain simply because they were not seen by the civilian population, out of sight and out of mind perhaps.

The bottom line though is I think it is great that Bomber Command is remembered here so fondly in NZ, they did a phenominal job and the sacrifice was far more huge for the kiwis than the Pacific campaign and other theatres was. And the work that you do Peter, and Phil and others who are making sure the old boys are still keeping in touch and their stories are being recorded and their artefacts are being preserved, etc, is incredibly admirable, and I think you deserve better public recognition for your work. Well done.

[errolmartyn]

Dave,

"The RNZAF age for overseas service was 20"

I'm fairly certain this was 21, not 20. What is your source?

Errol