vnkiwi
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by vnkiwi on Jan 18, 2012 11:42:35 GMT 12
Yes, Have sent him 2 emails, one last year sometime and one last week but to date have had no reply.
regards
vnkiwi
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 18, 2012 15:43:54 GMT 12
Maybe his email has changed. He lives at Westmere, Auckland and is in the phone directory.
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Post by emron on Feb 15, 2017 20:11:56 GMT 12
W88 is still in the Museum, W44 is presently up for sale, W1 has just undergone a major renovation and is proudly cruising the Waitemata again. Whatever happened to W-275 ?
Calling davidd : When researching for your article did you find out the US service history for W-275,6,7 ?
Which unit did we inherit them from and what were their serial numbers ? It would be interesting to see if we can trace them back to the Miami Shipbuilding Corp. or if they were built in another yard.
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Post by emron on Feb 19, 2017 16:57:45 GMT 12
Who knows where W1 came from ?
She was built as a 64ft High Speed Launch Type 1 by The British Power Boat Co. Ltd in 1939. But what was her UK identity ? There were only 22 of this model made to an RAF contract and numbered HSL100 – HSL121. I can't find account of any others built additional for NZ. W1 was purchased from the British Government for shared use by the RNZAF and NZ Army. So was it one of the RAF production run ? Failing to find anything more definite I've searched for the HSL100 series and came up with RAF history for all but HSL113 and 114. So was W1 one of these ? Rumour has it that one other launch ordered was lost during delivery when the freighter carrying it was sunk.
Now one of the Napier Sea Lion engines which I believe came out of W1 is Power Marine Serial No.44. If these launches were the first application for that engine then it's probable that No.44 was installed in the 15th launch built, which was most likely HSL114. So this is my best guess so far.
If anyone knows better please steer me on the right track before I resort to calling the present owner to see what history he has found. His account of the modern day W1 can be found over on the Waitematawoodys forum.
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jrbkiwi
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by jrbkiwi on May 31, 2017 20:05:58 GMT 12
Recently finished a 36" R/C model of W1 (5yrs in the making on and off) and am attempting to post some photos here, not sure how to do this from my files yet.
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Post by davidd on Jun 1, 2017 23:14:43 GMT 12
Emron,
Unfortunately I have no previous identities or histories for the three Miami crash launches, but they were fairly early models, and the (US Navy?) was probably pleased to see the last of them when the RNZAF assumed responsibility for operating them in about April 1945, to work in concert with PBY Catalinas in maintaining ASR services in the Northern Solomon and Bismark areas following the withdrawal of most American servicemen in the area, the latter mostly being moved to the Philippines. These boats were of course of the very early type with vee-drives, which seemed like a good idea, but from what I can gather they were not a runaway success in the Miamis, and all later versions went to conventional engine mountings with normal angled down drive shafts. As with all these wartime wooden boats, they seldom had much major maintenance in the forward area, and tended to get fairly heavy with water-logging, which reduced their usefulness and performance. It is just possible that SOMEBODY may have retained some of the log books for at least one of the Miamis, but if one of these documents ever shows up it JUST MAY contain the original serial number. I have looked at some wartime and postwar RNZAF files on marine craft, but these did not contain such details as we would like on the origins of these particular boats. Only two of the Miamis ever reached New Zealand by tortuous means (they had to give up bringing them home "under their own steam" and one was damaged when it ran aground on this homeward voyage I think - it was abandoned as considered not worth fixing due to a lack of spare parts, particularly for the drive train, and the general hull condition was not good, plus few if any repair facilities were now available en route. Driving these rather thirsty boats on long inter-island stages proved very difficult, with additional fuel tanks having to be installed. The lucky pair finally turned up in New Zealand in about May 1947 aboard a large British "heavy lift" ship which had originally been built for the invasion of Europe (D-Day). These craft are briefly covered in R J McDougall's "New Zealand Naval Vessels" but details of the Miamis are sadly lacking. I do have some notes on them around somewhere, but so far as I know they were both maintained in service with the RNZAF from 1949 (after both receiving a major overhaul), with one being stationed in Fiji, the other in Auckland - they were supposedly maintained to carry out ASR standby so as to meet New Zealand's obligations under ICAO to protect crews and passengers of trans-Pacific airliners (and other aircraft or vessels) within New Zealand's area of responsibility) until the late 1950s. However I do not know of them being involved in any major rescues, but they must have carried out at least a few rescues over those years. I think one was involved with the RNZAF Catalina which suffered an engine fire in flight during anti-sub exercises in about 1950, and was forced to ditch, but I stand to be corrected on this point. However boats such as these were not ideal for open-sea operations, and their theoretical high speed was not the great advantage as hoped. Their questionable vee-drives were always a bit of a worry when far from land, and hard chine vessels were just not suited to the open sea, except under ideal weather and sea conditions.
As to the origins of W1, I have always been under the impression that it was a brand new boat for the RNZAF, and I believe that it was delivered to New Zealand before all the RAF boats were accepted, so may have been additional to their contract. According to one of the original crew members of W1, the craft was outfitted with a full set of silver, cutlery and crockery, all marked with the ship's badge, but this seems a little odd to me as of course the boat had no name originally, nor even a number in the RNZAF until somewhat later. Perhaps it did receive all the silverware, crockery, etc, but just with a generic RNZAF badge. The RNZAF Museum also has an original maker's operating manual for the Napier engines, although rather than being described as "Napier Sea Lions" as is often quoted, they are simply termed as Napier 12-cylinder marine engines, as modified by British Power Boats.
David D
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zkdex
Squadron Leader
Posts: 101
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Post by zkdex on Apr 28, 2018 18:48:56 GMT 12
Doing a bit of on-line research on the site Waitemata Woodies...spotted a photo of a launch called Mararoa, apparently built in 1905 for a Rotorua operator. Comment was made that the RNZAF used this launch during WW2 for R & R purposes... and that the launch had the number W251 applied to it. Was this R & R launch used in Rotorua? Any other misc RNZAF boats lurking out there?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 28, 2018 19:21:26 GMT 12
That is quite possible as the RNZAF had an R&R Centre for Sick & Wounded at Rotorua (in the Tudor style museum and baths building as it happens).
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jrbkiwi
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 3
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Post by jrbkiwi on Aug 23, 2018 3:53:31 GMT 12
vnkiwi, how have you got on with the model ? I finished my model of W1 (36") a while back and have it all up and running. If you have a look at waitemata woodys site under W1 you will see how it turned out. Also on you tube under RNZAF high speed launch R/c. Have been on board the latest W! re-incarnation and the owner has done a great job without it looking too modern.
Regards jrb kiwi
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 23, 2018 8:04:22 GMT 12
Doing a bit of on-line research on the site Waitemata Woodies...spotted a photo of a launch called Mararoa, apparently built in 1905 for a Rotorua operator. Comment was made that the RNZAF used this launch during WW2 for R & R purposes... and that the launch had the number W251 applied to it. Was this R & R launch used in Rotorua? Any other misc RNZAF boats lurking out there? I can now confirm that yes the Mararoa was on loan to the RNZAF on lake Rotorua for use of the sick and wounded airmen who were recuperating. I read an article just two nights ago in an old newspaper saying it had been stolen, and the RNZAF had mounted an aerial search and eventually found it in a secluded cove unharmed, but they suspected it may have actually been left there in order to drag it up to the road and tow it away. So luckily they recovered it. It was only a 30 foot launch by the way. |
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Post by emron on Jan 7, 2021 21:00:15 GMT 12
Emron, Unfortunately I have no previous identities or histories for the three Miami crash launches, but they were fairly early models, and the (US Navy?) was probably pleased to see the last of them when the RNZAF assumed responsibility for operating them in about April 1945, to work in concert with PBY Catalinas in maintaining ASR services in the Northern Solomon and Bismark areas following the withdrawal of most American servicemen in the area, the latter mostly being moved to the Philippines. These boats were of course of the very early type with vee-drives, which seemed like a good idea, but from what I can gather they were not a runaway success in the Miamis, and all later versions went to conventional engine mountings with normal angled down drive shafts. As with all these wartime wooden boats, they seldom had much major maintenance in the forward area, and tended to get fairly heavy with water-logging, which reduced their usefulness and performance. It is just possible that SOMEBODY may have retained some of the log books for at least one of the Miamis, but if one of these documents ever shows up it JUST MAY contain the original serial number. I have looked at some wartime and postwar RNZAF files on marine craft, but these did not contain such details as we would like on the origins of these particular boats. Only two of the Miamis ever reached New Zealand by tortuous means (they had to give up bringing them home "under their own steam" and one was damaged when it ran aground on this homeward voyage I think - it was abandoned as considered not worth fixing due to a lack of spare parts, particularly for the drive train, and the general hull condition was not good, plus few if any repair facilities were now available en route. Driving these rather thirsty boats on long inter-island stages proved very difficult, with additional fuel tanks having to be installed. The lucky pair finally turned up in New Zealand in about May 1947 aboard a large British "heavy lift" ship which had originally been built for the invasion of Europe (D-Day). These craft are briefly covered in R J McDougall's "New Zealand Naval Vessels" but details of the Miamis are sadly lacking. I do have some notes on them around somewhere, but so far as I know they were both maintained in service with the RNZAF from 1949 (after both receiving a major overhaul), with one being stationed in Fiji, the other in Auckland - they were supposedly maintained to carry out ASR standby so as to meet New Zealand's obligations under ICAO to protect crews and passengers of trans-Pacific airliners (and other aircraft or vessels) within New Zealand's area of responsibility) until the late 1950s. However I do not know of them being involved in any major rescues, but they must have carried out at least a few rescues over those years. I think one was involved with the RNZAF Catalina which suffered an engine fire in flight during anti-sub exercises in about 1950, and was forced to ditch, but I stand to be corrected on this point. However boats such as these were not ideal for open-sea operations, and their theoretical high speed was not the great advantage as hoped. Their questionable vee-drives were always a bit of a worry when far from land, and hard chine vessels were just not suited to the open sea, except under ideal weather and sea conditions. As to the origins of W1, I have always been under the impression that it was a brand new boat for the RNZAF, and I believe that it was delivered to New Zealand before all the RAF boats were accepted, so may have been additional to their contract. According to one of the original crew members of W1, the craft was outfitted with a full set of silver, cutlery and crockery, all marked with the ship's badge, but this seems a little odd to me as of course the boat had no name originally, nor even a number in the RNZAF until somewhat later. Perhaps it did receive all the silverware, crockery, etc, but just with a generic RNZAF badge. The RNZAF Museum also has an original maker's operating manual for the Napier engines, although rather than being described as "Napier Sea Lions" as is often quoted, they are simply termed as Napier 12-cylinder marine engines, as modified by British Power Boats. David D Just revisiting this topic and a recent search for “marine craft” on the Air Force Museum photo collection revealed a fascinating series of images of Aotea and Tainui while at Noumea and also after their arrival at Auckland aboard MV Empire Charmian. Sadly no distinct markings on either of their hulls to indicate previous US serials. I still think that the most likely unit that they came from was the 15th Emergency Rescue Boat Squadron (15ERBS) but I can’t find any record of transfer to NZ in the history of the 12 boats that they held at war’s end. |
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Post by davidd on Jan 9, 2021 10:17:43 GMT 12
RNZAF was to operate the three Miamis in the NORSOLS area from about mid-1945, at three separate locations, and with each boat having two full crews. As there were so few RNZAF officers qualified to operate such vessels (open-sea work, out of sight of land), they were forced to ask the RNZN if they could supply six such officers in the meantime until six keen RNZAF officers could obtain the necessary qualifications, which was to take several weeks at least. I think each crew included about five or six men, in addition to the commanding officers. Incidentally, I am not certain whether "our" three Miamis were previously operated by the US Navy or the USAAF. 15 ERBS does sound like a USAAF unit to me, what you think?
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 10, 2021 10:07:32 GMT 12
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Post by davidd on Jan 10, 2021 10:36:24 GMT 12
Looks intriguing Dave, any keen types live in Wellington. Is Archives NZ doing business at the moment, or is it "on the ropes"?
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 10, 2021 10:44:12 GMT 12
On the ropes? I was there last at the end of October and it was all normal.
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Post by emron on Jan 14, 2021 16:09:33 GMT 12
RNZAF was to operate the three Miamis in the NORSOLS area from about mid-1945, at three separate locations, and with each boat having two full crews. As there were so few RNZAF officers qualified to operate such vessels (open-sea work, out of sight of land), they were forced to ask the RNZN if they could supply six such officers in the meantime until six keen RNZAF officers could obtain the necessary qualifications, which was to take several weeks at least. I think each crew included about five or six men, in addition to the commanding officers. Incidentally, I am not certain whether "our" three Miamis were previously operated by the US Navy or the USAAF. 15 ERBS does sound like a USAAF unit to me, what you think? David D 15 ERBS was assigned to the 13th Air Force and there was another six 63ft launches operated by 14 ERBS which was assigned to 5th Air Force. Although they may have shared the same bases with the Navy I now realise that all these vessels had gone north to the Philippines before the RNZAF got involved and have to rule them out as a source for any of our boats. Now just comparing photos of W275 and 276 with other boats I notice they have a different profile to the more common Model 314’s and could be from the earlier Model 152 production. Amongst the ten or more of this Miami built version consigned to the SW Pacific in 1943 were US Navy boats C-9475, C-9476 and C-9477. I don’t know which unit they were deployed with or even if they were still stationed there in 1945, but I wonder if it’s more than coincidence that they share their last 2 digits with the NZ serials. I’ll keep looking for more info that might confirm this link. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 18, 2021 13:14:09 GMT 12
I just happened onto this article from the Press, dated 15th of November 1944.
IN FIJIAN WATERS
R.N.Z.A.F. MARINE SECTION
TRANSPORT UNDER DIFFICULTIES
(R.N.Z.A.F. Official News Service.) LAUTHALA BAY, November 10.
The popular idea that the Marine Section of the R.N.Z.A.F. consists mainly of crash-boats and personnel tenders is far astray in Fiji. There are crash-boats and tenders here, of course, and they have a busy time with a flying-boat operational training unit and perhaps another squadron of flying-boats regrouping for service in the forward area to attend to, besides visiting Allied aircraft. In addition to these duties the Marine Section in Fiji is a general maid-of-all-work and a fortunate solution to transport problems which otherwise might remain unsolved.
Formerly the Marine Section saved the day when the R.N.Z.A.F. was stationed at Nandi, on the western side of the island. The port of Suva was to the south. The question of how to get the large supplies of petrol required at Nandi round from Suva then arose. To have taken it by road would have been expensive and heart-breaking. Up the east coast from Suva to Nandi there was nothing but open water—too rough for the Marine Section launches to tow in. But it was the Marine Section that eventually did the job. The boats sailed from Suva and Lauthala Bay up the east coast of the island and round the top, towing heavily-laden barges through the tricky, winding channels inside the reef. To-day the petrol barges are still being towed from Lauthala Bay up-river to Nausori.
Heavy stores and equipment landed at Suva are ferried to Lauthala Bay by the Marine Section or carried on to Nausori, and thousands of yards of shingle have been towed to the two R.N.Z.A.F. stations on the island. In addition, regular trips are made to Kandavu, some 50 miles across open water, for supplies of native fruit — pineapples, bananas, pawpaws, etc.— which add a necessary change to service diet.
Service and Repairs
The boats are serviced regularly and repaired if necessary by a small boat building section, one of the busiest sections on the station. The borer worm is very active in these waters, and, unless the boats are copper-sheathed, they are pulled up regularly for inspection. Navigating between coral reefs a foot or so beneath the surface is awkward work, particularly at night, and the loss of rudders and propellers is inevitable.
Recently a crash-boat struck a reef while travelling at high speed and damaged her two rudders, propeller, and stern planking. Later the same day the damaged planking had been stripped off and preparations were being made to replank the double-skinned hull. The work was being done by Fijians, who have been found to be skilful and keen boatbuilders and delighted to tackle tasks calling for ability and initiative.
The majority of boats used are shallow-draught and are sent from New Zealand. Most of them have come from Auckland, some being converted pleasure launches, which have proved ideal for the job of operating in shallow waters and up-river. Auckland boatbuilders have an excellent reputation throughout the islands and the craft of the Marine Section have done much to enhance that reputation
Without a knowledge of the true position the life of the sailor-airman in the Pacific might appear to be pleasant enough. Actually it is hard slogging all the way.
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Post by tbf2504 on Jan 18, 2021 13:26:57 GMT 12
In our book "The Golden Age of New Zealand Flying Boats" there is a whole chapter on the RNZAF's Marine Section which will provide many of the answers to questions being raised in this forum.
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Post by emron on Mar 1, 2021 18:40:35 GMT 12
W1 and W275 were built years apart and on opposite sides of the Atlantic but they shared a common path in their development.
The use of three of their “Power” marine Lion engines in each of the early models of 60ft MT Boats and 64ft HS Launches (including RNZAF W1) produced by the British Power Boat Co. gave them an impressive performance. But by 1938, larger 70ft designs were planned and production began on orders from Dutch, French, Swedish and Norwegian Navies, a mixture of MTB and MGBs. These vessels when fully laden would displace nearly twice that of the shorter boats and would require much more engine output than the 500hp that the Lion could deliver. There was no larger marine petrol engine readily available but Hubert Scott-Paine was able to procure upwards of 70 of the newly introduced Rolls-Royce Merlin aero engines (Merlin II ?) that were converted for this marine application. They used a modified single stage supercharger and the engine developed at maximum 1100hp. Each of these boats would require 3 Merlins.
However by the time manufacture began, the situation in Europe was dire and all deliveries of these vessels to the overseas customers were cancelled and production diverted to the Royal Navy. At the same time the company had commenced a second run of 64ft rescue launches, this time for the South African Air Force. These would be powered by two marine Merlins. Only one of these was completed and it was delivered to South Africa in early 1940. This became SAAF serial R0 named "Malmok". The remainder of that order was under urgency re-allocated to the RAF, although by then the stock of Merlins was exhausted and they reverted to Lion engines once more. These became Type 1 Rescue Launches HSL115-121 with the RAF.
While the British war effort was already overextended with their own production, South Africa was still desperate to obtain more rescue boats as German surface raiders and submarines prowled the shipping lanes off it’s coast and shipping losses were high. They sent a purchasing mission to USA where they found no boat was available “off the shelf” but a Naval Architect, Dair Long from Michigan University, agreed to design one using the performance specifications of their 64ft BPBC launch as his guide. The design was soon completed and a U.S. Navy contract was raised on behalf of the British Purchasing Commission for supply to South Africa. The order for 8 boats was issued to the Miami Shipbuilding Corporation of Florida.
The Americans had no equivalent to the Merlin available. The most powerful engine on the market was the 1250hp Packard M4-2500 but the U.S. Navy had restricted their use to PT-Boats. The 630hp Hall-Scott “Defender” was next best but production was sold out to the British for the next year. The third most powerful was the Kermath 500hp “Sea Raider” and that was available so it was chosen. It was calculated that a total of four Sea Raiders would be required to propel each 63ft boat to the 42knots guaranteed and they were installed in tandem pairs on each side. The first 4 of these launches (which would become known as MSC Model 127) were completed and successfully trialled by March 1941 and shipped to South Africa in April. These became SAAF serial R1 to R4.
Once the British learnt of this success they placed an order for seven for the RAF and they diverted 14 Hall-Scott Defenders from their standing order to power them. The pair of engines were mounted closer to the stern and drove the propellers through V-drives in the dispensary. The twin V12 Defenders gave a top speed of 36knots. This change in internal arrangements and other design modifications requested, resulted in the new MSC Model 152. This first batch of 7 became RAF Miami Series II HSL2515-2521 and later orders followed. The U.S. Navy subsequently placed a larger order of their own for this version and a total of 82 were completed before further supply of V-drives became unobtainable. I believe that the 3 Miami boats that became RNZAF W275-7 were from this first production run for the Navy.
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