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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 28, 2011 14:22:11 GMT 12
Thanks for that info jirilea.
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Post by escort01 on Apr 24, 2011 23:00:07 GMT 12
My parents took over seagrove farm as an ex servicemans lease around 1955 and we sold it about 1980. About 1968 Motat removed all the aircraft parts we had found including the 6? wheel trolley that circled a post at the intersection of the 2 runways that carried the radar array. The hangar floors can still be found in chunks by probing the swampy ground at the base of the hill and there is still an aircraft wing that a digger cut thru [according to the bulldozer driver, at the end everything was typically Bulldozed into a pit by the yanks but Motat couldn't find it - there's also supposed to be at least 2 crashed aircraft buried and one dauntless in the mud in the creek]. There is a full network of once- sealed taxyways linking the hangars and strips, these are what the car clubs used .The radio research station run by the university was there because in the early years there were no fences to cause interference. The current building [and aerials] astride the runway is a CAA radio/microwave relay station for mangere build circa 1970. As for the road end the Franklin council acknowledged to dad that it was legal road to the end boundary now fenced off but they never maintained it as it was our private access. The runways were fully sealed but the gravel foundations are much much wider [ to allow for bombers?] The only foundations remaining are supposed to be of the cookhouse althought there is a mysterious rock wall in the cliff by the main taxyway intersection that may be blocking a tunnel?. The air to ground gunnery range was on the beach by the road end where we could dig .50 projectiles out of the bank and the bomb range was a concrete float by camp Morely at Clarks Beach where we could dig corroded smoke bombs out of the mud as kids until the MOD had a clean up!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 27, 2011 22:39:28 GMT 12
Great memories, welcome to the forum!
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Post by kiwithreadz on Aug 8, 2011 18:33:50 GMT 12
Our family own the large portion of the airfield. Would the people on this board, please respect that this land is no longer an airfield or tourist attraction. All requests for access need to be pre arranged - contact through seafield@ps.gen.nz. all trespassers will be prosecuted.
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Post by kiwithreadz on Aug 8, 2011 18:37:52 GMT 12
I was visiting a client out at Glenbrook Beach today so drove down Seagrove road and took these pics. What an amazing bit of land for an airfield. Please - respect our families privacy, this land is now in private ownership. Its a working farm, not a tourist attractiion. In future all trespassers will be prosecuted
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Post by philip on Aug 8, 2011 19:33:23 GMT 12
My pics were taken from a public road. Sounds like you're being a bit precious.
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Post by corsair67 on Aug 8, 2011 22:59:43 GMT 12
Our family own the large portion of the airfield. Would the people on this board, please respect that this land is no longer an airfield or tourist attraction. All requests for access need to be pre arranged - contact through seafield@ps.gen.nz. all trespassers will be prosecuted. Having had some experience over the years with how a small minority of people can act on private farm land, I certainly sympathise with you if you've had some bad experiences yourself recently. But by the same token, not everyone who visits your property is necessarily a member of this forum, so while I certainly do understand how you may feel, I don't think it is fair to direct blame for the actions of some, at all members of this forum. That being said, I would ask that any fellow forum members who are thinking of visiting the site, please respect the wishes of the current owners and make contact via the e-mail address supplied (seafield@ps.gen.nz) to arrange a time to visit the site that is mutually convenient to both yourselves and to the owners.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Aug 9, 2011 10:15:47 GMT 12
Our family own the large portion of the airfield. Would the people on this board, please respect that this land is no longer an airfield or tourist attraction. All requests for access need to be pre arranged - contact through seafield@ps.gen.nz. all trespassers will be prosecuted. How amazing, to own such a piece of history.
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Post by kiwithreadz on Oct 3, 2011 11:09:03 GMT 12
Sounds like you're being a bit precious. I will remember that next time I have to round up stock in the middle of the night because a sightseer has left the gates open. We are private people, entitled to a private life. All we asked is to be contacted for people who wished access.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 3, 2011 12:05:29 GMT 12
Fair enough. I'm sure people reading th thread are now aware of the situation and therefore will be respectful. Thanks for your input.
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ryanc
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 1
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Post by ryanc on Jan 25, 2013 10:23:14 GMT 12
Wow, brings back memories this page...
My family owned some of the runway from the late 70's through to mid nineties. I spent most of my childhood walking along the beach looking for spent shells and bullets. Used to find crates of them at the other end of the runway, say probably all gone now, as they were corroding and disappearing then - brass doesn't like salt water, though there's probably brass remnants still around. I remember the concrete blocks in the hangars dug into the side of the banks all covered in scrub back then, lots of twisted metal about also. My family used to live in one of the houses that was reportedly a sergeants mess and a neighbour lived in the officers mess. In fact next next to the old sergeants mess was a big pile of .50 cal shells each with 1942 written on the base. One of the neighbours on the other side of Seagrove road down next to the water used to have a huge deactivated mine sitting on a concrete pedestal - that seems to have gone now. Also I remember the council erecting a small concrete monument dedicated to the runway and camp at then end of Seagrove road, though last time I visited - the end of the road was closed off with a gate and a sign saying in bright red letters 'Private Property' Which to be honest I don't agree with as the road is and always has been public land especially when a monument is present. I remember alot of people used to go and look. The army used to carry out their training there during the 80's and Dad used to let groups of people fly their radio controlled planes there. There was a row of very old microcarpa trees running down the last 400 metres where the camp was ment to be, microcarpa have been removed now. Part of the runway (the land between the end of the road and the beach) used to be owned by the government, the next door neighbour purchased the land and used to graze his cattle on it...
The fill for the runway was sourced from the Coromandel apparently huge quantities of it bought in by the truckload. I also remember the land where the runway was designated for a (nuclear?) power station to be built, in fact there are big concrete plugs where land samples were taken in the air runway, the runway was perfect for it as it was a very sturdy base - but this was shelved due to public opposition at the time. I also remember the Maori Pa (I think the reason why Waiau Pa is called its name) at the highest point on the farm with dimples in the ground which used to overlook the runway, used to dig round hoping to find something, luckily I never did. All in all a pretty cool place to grow up as a kid with lots and lots of awesome memories...
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Post by rone on Dec 26, 2013 20:31:32 GMT 12
While doing CMT during 1956 I along with the rest of the trainees spent some time at Seagrove doing gunnery tracking etc. with a pair of Harvards which would come across the harbour at almost zero feet, up over the embankment and we were supposed to track them. Not a hope in hell. Sadly the crew of one of the Harvards were killed late 1956 at Hopuhopu Camp, Ngaruawahia doing the same caper only this time I believe a wing tip touched the ground and it was all over.
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Post by errolmartyn on Dec 27, 2013 18:57:50 GMT 12
While doing CMT during 1956 I along with the rest of the trainees spent some time at Seagrove doing gunnery tracking etc. with a pair of Harvards which would come across the harbour at almost zero feet, up over the embankment and we were supposed to track them. Not a hope in hell. Sadly the crew of one of the Harvards were killed late 1956 at Hopuhopu Camp, Ngaruawahia doing the same caper only this time I believe a wing tip touched the ground and it was all over. From my For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Fates: 1943-1998 :
Mon 4 Mar 1957 Army Co-operation exercise at Hopuhopu Military Camp, Ngaruawahia 1 (Auckland) Squadron, TAF (Whenuapai)North American Harvard III NZ1074 - took off at about 1450 and proceeded to the camp, where a series of low-level runs were made so that the Army could exercise their Territorial field gun crews in tracking and training. At 1605, released from his duties, the pilot dived over the camp from the south, climbed and executed a wing over. Diving again from the opposite direction, he carried out a climbing roll and lost control, the Harvard flicking into a high speed stall and crashing onto an unused airfield adjacent to the camp. The pilot was thrown out as the aircraft disintegrated. He is buried at Blackball and the navigator at Karori, Wellington. Pilot: 78247 Plt Off Alan John KINSELLA, RNZAF - Age 19. 133hrs solo (80 on Harvard) Navigator: 78143 Plt Off Graeme Robert ASKEW, RNZAF - Age 19. The two airmen belonged to the Transport Support Unit at Whenuapai at the time. And Vol Three (Biographies & Appendices) Amendment: KINSELLA, A J – body flown on the 5th from Hamilton to Hokitika on board an RNZAF Devon, Blackball being circled en route, landing at Hokitika at 1830. ASKEW, G R – funeral at St David’s Presbyterian Church, Upper Hutt, on morning of 7th. Errol
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Post by davidd on Jan 1, 2014 11:01:45 GMT 12
I presume the hangars referred to by Ryan were the so-called aircraft pens, which were quite light structures set in revetments (blast pens), being cheaply constructed either from malthoid-covered plywood over light wooden framing, with larger ones having curved angle iron half hoops I believe. These aircraft shelters provided shelter from rain and wind, but were generally of a very temporary nature, and were only expected to last for a year or so, if that. The pens would have been widely dispersed around the aerodrome I imagine, and hopefully a layout plan from the 'drome still exists to show us just where. I would think that most of the pens at Seagrove were of the smaller type as it was intended only as a fighter drome for the US Navy for the protection of a proposed fleet anchorage near Auckland, along with Ardmore. There was also quite a bit of Marston matting laid at Seagrove too, on taxiways, etc. David D
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Post by privatepilot on Apr 20, 2015 17:21:01 GMT 12
Folks, in the early part of WW2 Auckland Aero Club had their facility commandeered for fighter training as the Wellington's which were on order were redeployed to Surrey England in an agreement with RAF and RNZAF that a New Zealand bomber squadron be formed in England to make use of the NZ owned aircraft/bombers. Later in 1940 a decision was made to continue developing Seagrove as a Pacific fighter training base which included mechanics, pilots and armourers like my late uncle who had been seconded from Pacific theatre to return to Auckland and take a position as fitter-armourer at Seagrove which lasted till wars end, he never moved to NZAR or Ardmore as he was considered to important, Seagrove was closed 'officially' in 1948 when both Whenuapai and Hobsonville had all their runways modernised and the seaplane base at Hobsonville re assessed for peace time service, not much later Mechanic's Bay became operational; and Hobby went on to be a service orientated for SAS and UH1 Helo's.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 22, 2015 1:35:50 GMT 12
Hmmm, where do I start here....
Actually, Auckland Aero Club's instructors and aircraft and their aerodrome at Mangere were impressed into RNZAF service in 1939 under a previous agreement, and were used to train new instructors for the various flying training schools that the RNZAF created. It was initially known as the Flying Instructors School. In 1940 the unit moved to RNZAF Station Hobsonville, and then later in 1941 to RNZAF Station Tauranga where it was renamed the Central Flying School of the RNZAF. This unit has never disbanded and is now based at RNZAF Base Ohakea.
The Wellingtons never went to Surrey, they were operated from RAF Feltwell in Norfolk, and later the squadron moved to RAF Mildenhall before they converted to Stirlings that forced another move to RAF Newmarket. The 30 Wellingtons that the NZ Government had purchased were sold back to Britain in August 1939.
As for the development of RNZAF Station Seagrove, there's no way it was 1940 that they decided to develop it as a fighter station, because the RNZAF did not have any fighters in 1940, and didn't get their first fighters till 1942. Seagrove was developed initially for the US Armed Forces, and as they never came into the war till December 1941 and they never began basing aircraft here till much later, the 1940 date you give is incorrect.
RNZAF aircraft left Seagrove in 1944 when the Dauntless squadrons disbanded, and all the personnel went to other squadrons, including to fighter units at Ardmore and the gunners to Ventura squadrons, with groundcrews spread around. However Seagrove remained RNZAF property as its foreshore was a target area for gunnery and the P-40's and Corsairs regularly flew there from Ardmore to practice strafing there. Perhaps because it was a firing range is why your uncle was left on site, being an armourer. But there was certainly nothing else "too important" for anyone to be doing there.
I'm curious about your statement on Whenuapai and Hobsonville having their runways modernised in 1948 because Whenuapai had the exact same runways that were laid in 1940 up till within the last two years when a replacement programme has been taking place. And Hobsonville always only ever had grass runways and water landing areas, so I cannot see any "modernisation" being done there.
Mechanics Bay opened in the 1930's and was operational right through WWII as Auckland's main air terminal and an RNZAF station.
And the SAS did not arrive at Hobsonville till around 1992.
But you got one thing right, we did indeed have UH-1H Iroquois helicopters at Hobsonville.
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Post by privatepilot on Apr 23, 2015 8:15:33 GMT 12
Actually, Auckland Aero Club aircraft and some personnel were seconded only due to the fact that many had left for England and the remainder were asked to stay on and become Sgt Pilot (Instructors)and as I pointed out 'early in the war', and the Wellingtons became operational at Feltwell, but were sent initially to Surrey as Feltwell was and I quote my fathers 'logbook' they NZL and British service personnel ferry flew them to Feltwell once the squadrons had become operational. Seagrove was chosen as the Bomber base in 1939-1940 before becoming what was deemed 'other uses', I have all my late father documents including his standing orders when he was a base commander. Seagrove was de-commissioned in 1948 for RNZAF use in 1948, you may wish to refer to the then NZ War Office (Defence Department)secondment documents. SAS were at Hobby when I was a serviceman RNZASC in 1974 prior to my foreign deployment and even though Hobby was grass and I never stated their runway was concrete I stated they were re-instated with improvements (upgraded) as the newer aircraft were considerable heavier than what was considered large in 1941, I started life at Whenuapai(you may wish to look up the agreement that was made with local farming families about what work that was required to keep the extra land at Whenuapai post WW2). when my dad was Base Adj, he was later posted to Te Rapa Stores Depot, Great South Road Te Rapa (he died in service while at Te Rapa on 15th Jan 1960)Never said Mechanic Bay was built after the war as it had to be de-commissioned/'struck off' as a Military base before it could be used by civilians again as it had been seconded for war use for various US and RNZAF flying boats plus Imperial flying boats. Dave, I served with the Army 1971-1975 until injuries made me unfit for service so received a medical discharge and have had a healthy interest in both my now late uncle and father's service records, along with talking with my elderly mother, she lived on Station at Whenuapai from 1946-1958 in the married housing. My uncle worked prior to the war at the railway workshops in Otahuhu as a fitter-welder/turner then became an Armourer while serving in WW2, both in the pacific theatre and within NZ.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 23, 2015 9:51:28 GMT 12
Actually, Auckland Aero Club aircraft and some personnel were seconded only due to the fact that many had left for England and the remainder were asked to stay on and become Sgt Pilot (Instructors)and as I pointed out 'early in the war', The men who went to England to work up for the intended ferry flights of the Wellingtons were all regular RNZAF personnel, and were supplemented there in the UK by New Zealanders who were serving with the RAF (who were invited to transfer to the RNZAF and join the New Zealand Bomber Squadron. The Wellingtons had NOTHING to do with Auckland Aero Club. And Auckland Aero Club had nothing to do with Seagrove! The instructors of the AAC became impressed into into the RNZAF in September 1939 because they were all signed up members of the Air Reserve,which was a Government run measure that paid a certain amount towards civil flying training of each pilot with the proviso that should war erupt they'd be mobilised as part of the RNZAF's training structure. This is exactly what occurred, and their aircraft were and buildings were also impressed under the special wartime conditions. They all knew it was likely to happen. The Flying Instructors School was established on the 10th of September 1939, a week after the declaration of war. and the Wellingtons became operational at Feltwell, but were sent initially to Surrey as Feltwell was and I quote my fathers 'logbook' they NZL and British service personnel ferry flew them to Feltwell once the squadrons had become operational. Surrey is a big county, can you be more specific please as to which aerodrome they are alleged to have been sent? It may have been selected as a possible area for a possible landing strip but there was no runways or other establishments there till 1942 as far as I'm aware. I'd be interested to see these documents. What was your late father's name, please? I never disputed its decommissioning date, I only stated that operational flying units moved out in 1944.
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Post by delticman on Apr 23, 2015 10:51:06 GMT 12
I've checked, and the early Wellingtons were built at Brooklands, Weybridge, Surrey by Vickers. Could the above mean that they were returning to Surrey to pick up further aircraft? Bit out of my depth but that would appear to be a reason for Surrey.
Slightly in another direction, ask a person from Southern England where they are from and they will say a county rather than a town or city. I met some folk on a diverted flight in the Shetlands once, we were headed to Kirkwall but fog had closed that airport. I asked where they were from and they replied "Surrey". Asking further, they said "Thornton Heath". Now that sounds like a rural county village but in fact if you travel by train from Gatwick to Victoria, the station after East Croydon is Selhurst (where I worked) followed by Thornton Heath or as the locals said "Forthen Eath." They could have said South London or Croydon but no.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 23, 2015 11:15:41 GMT 12
That must be the case, yes. Thanks Ray.
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