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Post by ErrolC on May 29, 2019 13:49:17 GMT 12
This is why sole-source is under discussion. If you decide that you don't want to take a risk with immature designs, and the available dollars won't give you enough airframes of A400M + whatever, then there is only one answer. When your own requirements process (plus indicative pricing from potential suppliers) gives you one possibility, why go through the t1me and expense of a competitive tender? I forget, has the US Congress signed off on the C-130J price? They did so for the P-8A some months before we selected it.
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Post by horicle on May 29, 2019 15:54:56 GMT 12
Bear in mind Ron Marks TV comment of 23 Apr 2017 "Air Transport of NH90 is lacking and that's part of the future plan”. Mind you in those days he was a P-8 sceptic and has since had his head turned by the Boeing mafia’s influence on his advisors. So the fact that the A400 never got a mention in todays DomPost article and the C-2 made a one line appearance indicates that there has been a lot left unsaid.
Now for the unsaid. Our future transport fleet will not be fit for purpose if there is only one type in the frame. Three types is unworkable from a cost and support point of view. We have stumbled on with just Hercs for a long time and some people have forgotten there is a better way. So which two capabilities of transport do we need and which two types will provide it.
1. A400 and C295 2. C-2 and what
There is no C-130 in the mix
Therefore we will buy 5 C-130J’s and nothing will change. Sad.
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Post by fiftythree on May 29, 2019 19:32:16 GMT 12
2500 built as opposed to the other options not even in triple figures makes the best option C-130J without question. B757 replacement needs to take care if the bigger stuff. And the best option for that is C-17 as it's proven in the operating environments that New Zealand is prioritising. Fingers crossed for the Long Beach assembly plant re-opening or a 2nd hand deal from the U.S.
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Post by machina on May 29, 2019 19:45:11 GMT 12
2500 built as opposed to the other options not even in triple figures makes the best option C-130J without question. B757 replacement needs to take care if the bigger stuff. And the best option for that is C-17 as it's proven in the operating environments that New Zealand is prioritising. Fingers crossed for the Long Beach assembly plant re-opening or a 2nd hand deal from the U.S. C-17 would be awesome but I think that plant is being sold off. What would be the second hand options?
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 29, 2019 19:47:46 GMT 12
The C-17 has been debated ad nauseum in the past on the forum. No new examples are available, and currently second hand examples are ulikely an option.
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Post by fiftythree on May 29, 2019 21:26:08 GMT 12
C-17's make Dave really mad... Still a great aircraft though.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 29, 2019 21:36:10 GMT 12
Not at all, I am not mad. I think they were the best option but the government pissed about and missed the boat. So now there is no chance. Move on.
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Post by machina on May 29, 2019 22:04:20 GMT 12
Not at all, I am not mad. I think they were the best option but the government pissed about and missed the boat. So now there is no chance. Move on. C-5?
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Post by beaufighter4 on May 30, 2019 10:59:53 GMT 12
C17, A400, C2 all good aircraft, two of them still available, one not, now what I think is an interesting side comment I have had some chat from a member of the RAF who is a engine mech on the A400. He said quote "Its like working on a Chinese jig saw puzzle with the instructions printed in Greek". He then went on to give me a sad tale about struggling to keep the bloody things in the air. Anyone know if he is telling the truth, I have always found him to be a little on the winging side and likes to hear the sound of his own voice.
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Post by baronbeeza on May 30, 2019 12:28:59 GMT 12
Did you friend in the RAF ever work on British made aircraft ?
On that subject, does anyone know of any NAC stories about the introduction of the 737 ? They must have been a welcome change from working on Darts and things like Viscounts. I was involved with the RAF, like many others here, and at that stage the maintenance manhours of a UK jet was about twice that of the yank equivalents, F-16 etc. The Hawk was the exception, somehow they managed to fluke something there.
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Post by beaufighter4 on May 30, 2019 12:47:11 GMT 12
I think the last sentence in my previous post sums it up very nice. Now that you mention it I have heard from past members that servicing British made aircraft was a little more taxing. I think I will ignore him half of what he is telling me does not appear to be true and the other half is BS
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Post by Mustang51 on May 30, 2019 12:58:41 GMT 12
Cannot speak for anything modern but having worked on Meteor, Vampire etc I can only speak on them but the term "...bloody pommie aircraft..." is often heard in the hangars where those machines are maintained in this day and age.
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Post by beaufighter4 on May 30, 2019 14:48:06 GMT 12
Budget 2019 Most other new spending in defence is for operational matters, with the common word used throughout Budget documents referring to finding ways to "sustain" defence force capabilities.
I guess this means that we will be flying the elderly H model for another 10 years
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Post by ErrolC on May 30, 2019 14:56:31 GMT 12
No, there was nothing in last year's budget for the P-8s, they were never going to announce the Cargo selection in the budget.
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Post by zealman on May 30, 2019 15:03:46 GMT 12
Sorry Kiwis, you’ve been screwed over once again. I don’t think the C-130s are going to be replaced anytime soon .
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Post by atea on May 30, 2019 15:28:39 GMT 12
No, there was nothing in last year's budget for the P-8s, they were never going to announce the Cargo selection in the budget. Quite right. You can't put an unknown future cost into a budget document. Hence there was nothing in there for the P8's last year and nothing in there for any transport fleet replacements. Other info coming out (Stuff article etc) would suggest that the procurement process is well underway and once a decision has been made funds will be made available in the following year's budgets.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 30, 2019 15:45:53 GMT 12
The money for the new transport aircraft will come from capital expenditure, not from a government department's annually allocated budget.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 30, 2019 15:46:38 GMT 12
Did Defence get the boost to spending they need though? A few months ago the media was reporting that most of NZDF's buildings were delapidated and needed money now.
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Post by ErrolC on May 30, 2019 16:19:02 GMT 12
The money for the new transport aircraft will come from capital expenditure, not from a government department's annually allocated budget. treasury.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2019-05/est19-v4-defen.pdfThe Department has a small Capex budget, remaining at $350,000 p.a. Big Equipment purchases are included in 'Non-Departmental Capital Expenditure' Departmental Capital Expenditure Ministry of Defence - Capital Expenditure PLA (M22) This appropriation is limited to the purchase or development of assets by and for the use of the Ministry of Defence, as authorised by section 24(1) of the Public Finance Act 1989. Budget 18/19 | Estimated 18/19 | Budget 19/20 | 350 | 350 | 350 |
Non-Departmental Capital Expenditure Defence Capabilities (M22) This appropriation is limited to the purchase, modification or refurbishment of defence capabilities for the New Zealand Defence Force. 445,792 422,420 744,376 Total Non-Departmental Capital Expenditure 445,792 422,420 744,376 Budget 18/19 | Estimated 18/19 | Budget 19/20 | 445,792 | 422,420 | 744,376 |
They list $501,042 of 'Policy Initiatives' including 453,034 for Future Air Surveillance Capability, but that leave over 200m unspecified
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Post by zealman on May 30, 2019 16:37:31 GMT 12
I guess it’s a matter of interpretation isn’t it. I wouldn’t be holding my breath.
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