Urban myth-or true?

[jonesy]

I'm delivering a training session on Working in Confined Spaces, and was looking for a couple of "War Stories"to add into the presentation.
Now on my Aircraft Mechs course back in the early 90's we were told of a Tecchie working in wing fuel tank of C-130 (or P-3?), and was shut in when the lid was put on, then the tank filled. The story concludes with the body blocking the fuel inlet and subsequently discovered upon inspection.
A great story, but was it true? Given many other case studies I've looked at in other industries I can see the potential for this happening, pre-H&S regs coming in, but just can't seem to locate it on the net.
So what I'm asking for is... are there any real "documented" events similar to this happening? Any links/recommendations would be appreciated-cheers!

[shorty]

Having spent some time in C-130 and P-3 tanks (when I was a young and skinny AC) I doubt it would happen, for a start there would be cables going into the lead light ( had heard the same story pre 1968 prior to battery powered LED lights) as well as a ventilating hose to keep the air in there breathable. Both of these would preclude you from refitting the hatch. and when I was doing my time in them, starting in late '67, you needed some one at the hatch opening to pass tools etc in for you. Also he had had a list of everything that went in and checked them out as they were finished with, the first item on the list was "Baggie- Qty 1 " You would never be working in the tank on your own there would always be other people around..
I had heard of s vacuum cleaner being left in a DC 8 tank during manufacture and the first time we removed the bladder rank from a C-130 I came across a large flat coil of lockwire between the fuel sell and the aircraft,but no bodies!
I would say urban myth.

[Dave Homewood]

That story was told to us too at 4TTS, and I recall the story had it that his safety man had gotten distracted and then gone to lunch. He apparently returned from lunch, got no response when calling for his mate in the tank and assumed he'd buggered off to the Mess too. So he yanked out the leads and hoses, so we were told. The only reason it was found out was a week later the engines were having trouble with fuel supply and they opened the tank and found their missing airman. I seem to recall the incident was attributed to USAF or some other US military C-130 operator.

It seems extremely unlikely and even then as a greenhorn I had my doubts, but was presented to us as factual. And who knows, these sorts of things could happen "only in America", as they say.

I almost have a feeling I saw this story written up somewhere too, maybe in something like Insight?

Another story at that time that was also used as an example was a techie who set off a bang seat in a US Navy skyhawk by accident while doing cockpit maintenance, and ended up a red splat on the hangar ceiling.

[shorty]

re the bang seat story. Happened at RAAF Sabre squadron at Butterworth, reputedly the ding in the steel roof beams is still visible. Never went to Butterworth so cant personally vouch for it.

[Dave Homewood]

The one I referred to was a recent event when I was told, and it was a Skyhawk mentioned. I'm sure it must have happened many times around the world over the past 50 years. Not sure if the hangar was on land or a carrier hangar.

I have met guys who were onboard a Royal Navy carrier when an armourer fired an Avenger's guns in the hangar and hit another aircraft that exploded!! He was not popular. The ship very nearly sank.

[McFly]

Oct 13, 2011 19:30:49 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Another story at that time that was also used as an example was a techie who set off a bang seat in a US Navy skyhawk by accident while doing cockpit maintenance, and ended up a red splat on the hangar ceiling.

True Dave and referenced here: www.ejectionsite.com/estories.htm

Hot Seat on the hangar deck

An A-4 Skyhawk was respotted to the hangar deck before the seat was found to be hot. The A/C was roped off and personel were warned to stay clear. A team of Aviation Mechanics (AMEs) was dispatched to render the seat safe. The most experienced AME cautiously entered the cockpit and began removing the intiators while a pair of AMEs assisted by handing him tools from either side of the cockpit. What happened next is unknown, but the seat fired. The AME on the seat was hurtled up into the hangar deck ceiling denting it and killing him. The rocket blast killed the other two technicians.
The above stories are courtesy of a former AME from the same ship

It also mentions another incident in Mogadishu, Somalia in 1990. This was backed up by the 42 Squadron Andover detachment that was based there and some photos exist too.

Inadvertant Ejection : Mogadishu, Somalia 1990

A young Somali boy was poking around a Somali Air Force hangar shortly after the military had abandoned its base at Mogadishu. Chaos was running rampant in the area, as feuding rebel warlords were fighting for control, starvation was prominent and the UN peacekeeping force had not yet arrived. The curious Somali teenager hopped up into the cockpit of one of the abandoned Mig 15s in the hangar and undoubtably proceeded to fulfill his fantasies as an aspiring fighter pilot. Unfortunately, he encountered more realism than he desired when he pulled the ejection handles and immediately found out that the seat was one item in the dysfunctional aircraft that still worked. He proceeded to get the ride of his life as the seat fired, and a few milliseconds later he was airborne and rapidly heading toward the wild blue yonder. Unfortunately, there was a hangar roof between him and the sky, and he never took the opportunity to strap into the seat as he was playing aspiring fighter pilot. As he approached the hangar roof, his body gradually drifted apart from the seat and achieved sufficient lateral separation to avoid coming to a rapid halt as the seat impacted an overhead 12" steel girder support beam, putting a serious deformation in it. Our flying Somali superboy fared only slightly better, as his body was undoubtably bashed and shredded as it punched a hole through the sheet roof and landed on the tarmac outside the hangar.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for that Marty, I never realised that two others had been killed in that hangar ejection. Any idea what date and ship that was?

In the 1990's was there another magazine or pamphlet specifically on safety that was circulated other than Insight in the RNZAF? I seem to recall reading some safety thing with overseas examples and I don't think Insight ever highlighted foreign accidents?

[Luther Moore]

What about the story of the guy getting sucked into a propeller or engine is that a myth?

[Dave Homewood]

Many, many people have walked into propellers, but they don't suck people into them I don't think, do they? In certain light and speed of rotation conditions you just cannot see the blades and people walk into them. This is why tips ofthe blades are painted yellow or red and white, etc, to make then more visible. There was a case in recent years where a girl passenger landed at an airport, got out of the Cessna and ran to see her parent/s and ran straight into the spinning prop. Awful. A chap from here in Cambridge was killed in WWII, he was hand starting propellers on a DH86 at night, and after starting the send one turned round and walked into the first one that he'd started earlier. Poor blighter. There was also someone had their head taken off by a helicopter rotor blade some years back in NZ I believe.

There was one RNZAF member who walked through a spinning blade on a Vincent or Vildebeest and came out unharmed. This is fact as I understand it, and I know who it was, but the recorded details in James Sanders book are completely wrong.

As for the sucked in, that will be jet intakes, and yes that also happens a fair bit. A notorious type for that is the A-7 Corsair II as its intake is very low to the ground. Deck crews on carriers have to be very careful as there's limited space and wandering around a crowded deck may take you past an intake and you could get sucked in. Last week on Destroyed In Seconds there was a clip of a guy on a US carrier who was sucked into an Intruder intake. He put his head a few inches too high from his crouched position and suddenly he was gone, sucked in. There are barriers inside the intake to stop debree hitting the fan blades and there's a failsafe that shuts the engine off immediately, and so he and the aircraft were relatively unharmed.

[Luther Moore]

Thats the one I knew I had seen someone sucked up by a plane somewhere ,that must of been where I saw it, on that show. I watch that show alot.Speaking of it i'm watching it now on Fox8.I dont understand how you can't hear a started up plane engine and walk into a propeller.

[hardyakka]

If there are other engines running nearby masking the noise, I can easily imagine that a distraction could make a person oblivious to the presence of a spinning prop. In fact I think that was the case in the last NZ prop vs person incident I read about. Noise from a nearby helicopter distracted the passenger who jumped off the wing of a Cherokee after pulling up at the fuel pumps. Unfortunately the Cherokee was still running and he jumped off the front of the wing and went straight into the prop.

[flyjoe180]

Yes, that incident was at night at Ardmore, must have been 1994.

[shorty]

Also happened to a baggie at Ohakea who was marshalling a Vampire, walking backwards with ear muffs on and walked into the prop of a Harvard taxying past. Harvard pilot didn't see him.,Also at Whenuapai in early 60s(?) someone jumped out of a freighter door that was being towed (from the tail wheel) slipped and was run over by a main wheel.
Both these cases were quoted to us as part of the tarmac safety phase.

[Luther Moore]

Makes sense.

I wonder if it ever happened in War time?

[flyjoe180]

Regarding propellers, I saw a poster in the Woodbourne TTS hangar which simply said "If you never walk through a propeller arc you can never be hit by one".

[errolmartyn]

Oct 15, 2011 9:23:42 GMT 12 shorty said:

Also happened to a baggie at Ohakea who was marshalling a Vampire, walking backwards with ear muffs on and walked into the prop of a Harvard taxying past. Harvard pilot didn't see him.,Also at Whenuapai in early 60s(?) someone jumped out of a freighter door that was being towed (from the tail wheel) slipped and was run over by a main wheel.
Both these cases were quoted to us as part of the tarmac safety phase.

The circumstances of these two tragic deaths are recorded in Vol Two (Fates: 1943-1998) of my For Your Tomorrow :

Wed 8 Feb 1961

Tarmac accident
42 Squadron, RNZAF Station Ohakea
North American Harvard (serial?) - was taxying slowly in front of No 3 hangar when an instrument fitter walking across the tarmac was struck from behind by its propeller at 1345. Killed instantly, the airman had been making his way towards a Devon undergoing a ground run between Nos 3 and 4 hangars, but he moved in such a way as to remain in the Harvard pilot’s blind spot. His ability to hear the approaching aircraft was negated by the Devon’s engine noise.
Instrument Fitter: 70962 Flt Sgt Hylton CLEAVER, RNZAF - Age 35.

Thu 27 Jan 1966

Aircraft towing accident
RNZAF Base Auckland
Bristol Freighter 31(NZ)M (serial?) - whilst being towed backwards by the tail wheel at Whenuapai at 2240, a radar fitter sitting in the open side-door near the tail jumped down to the ground. He missed his footing, stumbled, and died when the port main wheel ran over him. A funeral service took place at Whenuapai on the afternoon of the 31st and was followed by burial at Mangere.
Radar Fitter: 80062 LAC Douglas Graham HAGGARD, RNZAF - Age 22.

Errol

[errolmartyn]

Oct 15, 2011 9:36:00 GMT 12 Luther Moore said:

Makes sense.

I wonder if it ever happened in War time?

Other propeller 'events' recorded in my For Your Tomorrow series additional to those in my previous post:

Sat 23 Jun 1917
New Zealand
Workshop accident
New Zealand Flying School (Kohimarama)
Struck by the propeller of a Roberts engine undergoing a bench test. While the engine was running, instructor Vivian Walsh noticed a shadow and immediately stopped the engine, but the youth was either too close or the machine had moved forward, since the blades struck him on the right shoulder and head. He died an hour after admission to hospital.
Mechanic: Charles Percy McGILL, New Zealand Flying School - Age 18.
Up to the Armistice the NZFS and Canterbury (NZ) Aviation Company between them trained 253 pilots for war service to Royal Aero Club Aviator’s Certificate standard. McGill’s was the only fatal accident connected with this training. As the employee of a civilian company he does not appear in any CWGC register.

Wed 11 Sep 1940
New Zealand
Engine starting accident
1 Air Observers School, RNZAF, (Ohakea)
DH86 Express NZ553 - while starting the port outer engine a few minutes after 1800, a flight mechanic was killed instantly when he walked into the already spinning propeller of the port inner engine. He is buried at Rongotea.
(Flight Mech): NZ391106 AC1 Arthur Laurence JESSOP, RNZAF - Age 22.

Tue 12 Sep 1944
NEW ZEALAND
Taxying accident
2 Service Flying Training School (ITS), RNZAF (Woodbourne)
Harvard II NZ978 - while being taxyied slowly along the taxying lane struck a pilot instructor of the ITS with its propeller, killing him instantly. Buried at Blenheim, the pilot instructor had walked diagonally across the lane in such a way as to remain in the blind spot of the taxying Harvard. He was also wearing a helmet, which minimised the chances of his hearing the approaching machine.
Pilot Instructor: NZ2140 Plt Off Truby Edward DODGSHUN, RNZAF - Age 22.
The CWGC register incorrectly records Dodgshun’s service number as 438770.

Errol

[Dave Homewood]

Arthr Jessop was the one I mentioned.

Bryan Cox mentioned in his book Too Young To Die about a groundcrew member who was struck on the head by Bryan's turning Harvard prop. The airman survived it amazingly.

[McFly]

Oct 15, 2011 9:23:42 GMT 12 shorty said:

The circumstances of these two tragic deaths are recorded in Vol Two (Fates: 1943-1998) of my For Your Tomorrow :

Wed 8 Feb 1961

Tarmac accident
42 Squadron, RNZAF Station Ohakea
North American Harvard (serial?) - was taxying slowly in front of No 3 hangar when an instrument fitter walking across the tarmac was struck from behind by its propeller at 1345. Killed instantly, the airman had been making his way towards a Devon undergoing a ground run between Nos 3 and 4 hangars, but he moved in such a way as to remain in the Harvard pilot’s blind spot. His ability to hear the approaching aircraft was negated by the Devon’s engine noise.
Instrument Fitter: 70962 Flt Sgt Hylton CLEAVER, RNZAF - Age 35.

F/S Hylton Cleaver was a cousin of mine and I wrote about the incident for the RNZAF 'INSIGHT' Safety & Health magazine last year.

This photo from the accident report shows the position of the respective aircraft following the accident. I'll post up a copy of the associated article when I find it.

(Photo RNZAF Official)

[Dave Homewood]

Regarding the man in the tank, see here:
www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/62814/