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Post by paddy on Nov 1, 2011 9:07:56 GMT 12
For those that rose above the exalted rank of LAC what was in the curriculum of the JNCO and SNCO courses?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 1, 2011 9:30:43 GMT 12
Hard core drinking and Mess party games, wasn't it?
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Post by paddy on Nov 1, 2011 10:44:24 GMT 12
Hard core drinking and Mess party games, wasn't it? Wasn't that done in On The Job Training Dave?
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Post by jonesy on Nov 1, 2011 11:33:07 GMT 12
Hard core drinking and Mess party games, wasn't it? Wasn't that done in On The Job Training Dave? It generally was, but NCO's training was more specialised and thorough, ie organising and managing piss-ups, not just turning up with a bottle of gin! Oh yeah there probably was some good leadership stuff they did, and when I was in there were some really good NCO's and SNCO's that made great mentors and leaders.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Nov 1, 2011 14:31:44 GMT 12
When I did my courses the CPLs Qual (1 week in 1988) was run on base and was a bit of a joke from memory (it was run by the Base Education Flight). Some drill, some First Aid, rifle shooting and a bit of classroom work.
The SGT's Qual (3 weeks in 1994) was run by GSTS at Woodbourne and was the best course I ever did. It was a very practical course with heaps of field work. Leadership was the main focus of it and I learned heaps, especially on the Dip Flat phase which was heaps of fun but bloody hard work. People actually failed this course it was that hard.
F/S Qual (2 weeks in 2000) was also done at GSTS and was the worse course I ever did in the RNZAF! It was hard to believe the same School ran the Sgt's Qual course. We were bored out of our trees. Most of it was classroom theory with very little practical field work. Our F/S Qual was the last one run under the old syllabus and I believe the new one was much better.
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Post by phil on Nov 1, 2011 16:06:00 GMT 12
I did CPL qual course in 2001, and it was much as Don describes it, but it was two weeks of mostly classroom work and was essentially an admin type course with a bit of public speaking and instructing training. These days it's four weeks long and is residential at Woodbourne. It's actually more like the old SGT qual course and more leadership and practically orientated.
SGT promotion course was five weeks long when I did mine a couple of years ago and is pretty full on. Lots of practical leadership exercises, starting with short practice assessments around CRTS (new name for GSTS), then longer (about 1 - 2 hours) down by the river. The final assessment at Dip Flat being longer more complex activities that were part of an ongoing and escalating military operation in a fictional south pacific country with increasingly violent freedom fighters, that ended up with a decent stoush up and fire fights on the last day.
There was also quite a bit of theory on that course, and the usual presentations on a given topic. Mine was 'The role of the SNCO through out history' or some such. These days they make everyone up to SGT for the duration of the course so you can all eat and socialise in the mess. A formal dining in is also held in the WOs & SNCOs on the final night.
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Post by Deane B on Nov 1, 2011 21:36:54 GMT 12
When I did my courses the CPLs Qual (1 week in 1988) was run on base and was a bit of a joke from memory (it was run by the Base Education Flight). Some drill, some First Aid, rifle shooting and a bit of classroom work. The SGT's Qual (3 weeks in 1994) was run by GSTS at Woodbourne and was the best course I ever did. It was a very practical course with heaps of field work. Leadership was the main focus of it and I learned heaps, especially on the Dip Flat phase which was heaps of fun but bloody hard work. People actually failed this course it was that hard. F/S Qual (2 weeks in 2000) was also done at GSTS and was the worse course I ever did in the RNZAF! It was hard to believe the same School ran the Sgt's Qual course. We were bored out of our trees. Most of it was classroom theory with very little practical field work. Our F/S Qual was the last one run under the old syllabus and I believe the new one was much better. I did my SGT and F/S courses in 1995 and 2001 respectively and echo Don's statements. A lot of work has been done since then though. There is now a 5 week Warrant Officer Qual Course which has had very positive reviews too.
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Post by oggie2620 on Nov 2, 2011 2:20:25 GMT 12
Deane you have done the pipe and slippers course have you not? I have done JMLC (Junior Management & Leadership Course) and will do IMLC (Intermediate) if I can get myself promoted to Sgt. Then there is AMLC (Advanced) for FS's and WOSP's for WOs. Typical RAF having so many initials to make life easy. The nice thing is you get civvie quals for doing the courses...
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Post by beagle on Nov 3, 2011 18:39:33 GMT 12
Did 2 sgts qual courses, no I didn't fail the first one but had to leave to dash home for family reasons. Was a bit of a giggle actually as we were at Dip Flat doing a bush craft exercise where we had to try and catch a deranged terrorist or something along those lines. The instructor immediately finished the exercise but the person playing the terrorist thought we were just toying with him so that took a while to sort out before I drove up the valley to a farmhouse to use their phone. We were leaving camp that day anyway. So I did 2 weeks of one course then went back and di the last week of another course. This is the members of the first course. Then the following year '92, did my Tech Admin Cse. We were the instructors course before he left the RNZAF. Blenheim people will know who he is and what he did after the Air Force.
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Post by camtech on Nov 3, 2011 19:46:59 GMT 12
Well then, way back in 1971, when I did my JNCOs course at Wigram, it was about 10 days if recall correctly, with 3 days out at West Melton. Lot of fun, and a fair bit of brown lubricant was used to ease us through the process. I had only been a corporal for 4 months, while some had been in the rank for quite a few years.
In 1984, when I did my F/S Qualifying course, the course was "aimed at service matters and management processes". our visit to West Melton was via the local pub, and somehow I achieved a Marksman rating with the Sten SMG.
Somewhere I have photos of the courses and I'll scan them in over the weekend - some characters were on those courses.
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Post by phil on Nov 3, 2011 19:54:11 GMT 12
Beagle, there's a fair few familiar faces in your tech admin course photo!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 3, 2011 20:17:35 GMT 12
Was that chap in the centre of the first photo from the RAF or something?
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Post by beagle on Nov 3, 2011 20:50:19 GMT 12
Yes Dave, he was on exchange and quite astickler for the rules. I remember when we did an exercise, some sort of orienteering in groups of 6 from memory and the group with him as leader marched around the country roads etc, where as the group i was in were quite the opposite
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Post by shorty on Nov 3, 2011 20:54:04 GMT 12
I did my JNCO course in 1972 and SNCO one in 1979. Don't remember a helluva a lot, seems to have occured in a kind of alcoholic haze! Like Les I'll track down the photos and post them here.
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Post by ngatimozart on Nov 3, 2011 21:18:35 GMT 12
Beagle, in your SQC photo, the joker at the extreme left in the front row, was he known as "paddles"? I remember him from days when we were both baggies.
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Post by shorty on Nov 4, 2011 14:04:21 GMT 12
Here are my two course photos, On the JNCO course I'm not sure how Tom the Pom got to be an instructor later on Beagles course as he was a sumpy by trade (I was also on 14 with him) The sole female (Cushla Williams) later joined the Police and went on to be the lead detective on the Rainbow Warrior case Another advanced drinking course we were sent on was the SNCO Tech Admin at Woodbourne. Tom the Pom was on that one too!
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Post by baronbeeza on Nov 4, 2011 16:02:43 GMT 12
We may need some help with the names Shorty. Are Kelly Fountaine, Gordon Moller, JD Brown and Mick King in any of them ?
They are guys I think I may recognise, plus yourself of course.
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Post by shorty on Nov 4, 2011 17:16:52 GMT 12
JNCO Course Back Row from the left Marshall, Campbell, Walker, Bryce, Fountaine, Keay, Ward, Thorpe, Wall Middle Row Carter,Webb, Maunsell, Fahey, Williams, Te Tomo, Hobbs, Williams, Smith, Squires Front Row Mines, Harrison, Moller, Wereta ,Simpson, Ashton , Gratton, Smith, Turner,
SNCO Rear from the left Morton, Webster, Lyall, Hislop, Penny, Seatter, Oakden, MacGuire Middle Fuller, Cox, Sparks, Thomas, Fitzgerald, Stewart, Johnson, Elder Front Blomfield, Hook, Bryant, Brown, Buchanan, Veitch, Mines
Tech Admin Rear from left Laurie King, Ralph Brunton, Mike Proctor, Mick King, Ace Wilson, Dick Lord, Stu bone, Paul Fitzgerald Front Butch O'Carrol,,Tony Ashdown Nev Mines, Paddy Callaghan, Tom Harrison
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 4, 2011 17:42:52 GMT 12
Surely that Wereta cannot be W/O Terry Wereta, is it?
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Post by shorty on Nov 4, 2011 17:51:35 GMT 12
I will admit Dave that Wereta and Ashdown are the two names I am not dead certain of, as i can't read the signatures but it looks like him and I seem to remember the nasal drip.
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