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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 9, 2011 13:00:16 GMT 12
70 Years Ago Today - on the 9th of December 1941, the first RNZAF Hudsons left New Zealand for overseas service, one day after entry into war with Japan. A flight of sic No. 2 (General Reconnaissance) Squadron Hudsons left New Zealand, with crews and groundcrew from both No's 1 and 2 (GR) Squadrons, headed for Fiji where they were to bolster the already patrolling Vincents, DH89's, DH86's and Short Singapores.
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Post by Damon on Dec 10, 2011 18:43:55 GMT 12
Quite amazing that the RNZAF's most modern aircraft was the Hudson spearheading our participation in the war. I thought initially that the first Hudsons heading up to the islands were of 3 (BR) squadron in 1942. Going to Brendan Deeres Vol 2 of Military Wings shows a picture of an early morning departure of the 3 SQN heading off to the islands in Oct 1942. I thought that was our first deployment of the Hudsons. Not so. What was the intended final stop of the 2 (GR) Squadron ,Fiji? Or did they go elswhere?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 10, 2011 19:54:00 GMT 12
Agghh. I just typed up a big long detailed explanation for your Damon, hit the Post Reply button and the bloody forum told me my request had timed out, and I lost the lot.
So, short answer isNo. 2 (GR) Squadron never deployed overseas as a unit with Hudsons, these were sent as an emergency measure to re-equip 4GR who only had old biplanes when war began. Some 2GR crews stayed there, some came home. More Hudsons and crews were sent over coming weeks
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 10, 2011 19:54:26 GMT 12
To get the rest you'll have to wait till the books come out...  |
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Post by Damon on Dec 10, 2011 20:29:27 GMT 12
Dave, I too lost what I had wrote here,but I clicked on the back button and got it all back.Lucky.
The photo I aluded to in Brendans book(Military Wings Vol.2) ,page 83 in the Hudson section.Was this our first full deployment to the islands with the Hudsons? With 3 (BR) Squadron.The photographer was there so must have had some major importance at that time.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 10, 2011 20:56:28 GMT 12
By the time No. 3 Squadron left NZ in October 1942, No 4 Squadron was at full Hudson strength in Nausori, Fiji, and No. 9 Squadron had formed up and built up to strength at Plaine-des-Gaiacs, New Caledonia. But yes this was the first full Hudson squadron deployment from New Zealand to the Pacific en masse as a unit (aircrews in their aeroplanes, groundcrew by ship).
The only full units that had previously deployed from NZ prior to this had been No. 488 Squadron by ship to Singapore without aeroplanes till they got there, and Unit 20 (which became No. 4 (GR) Squadron) which deployed by ship to Fiji in October 1940 with its four DH89 bombers aboard one of the ships. Unit 20 was our first RNZAF unti to deploy to the Pacific, due to the german Navy operating in the Pacific - that's the pacific War that the Yanks always forget or never knew happened...
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Post by Damon on Dec 10, 2011 21:05:05 GMT 12
Did the float kitted DH.60 also go to Fiji? Or was that earlier before the war?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 10, 2011 21:10:12 GMT 12
That was Samoa it went to, on a Navy ship as it was sort of Fleet Air Arm, and thatwas in 1930.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 10, 2011 21:11:16 GMT 12
Although I should add that Unit 20 did take a DH60 with them when they went to Fiji too, for communications flights between airfields.
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Post by Damon on Dec 10, 2011 21:20:02 GMT 12
So,I guess our pacific campaign started with the patrols to seek and protect N.Z from German raiders in the pacific.Using the Vincents, DH89's, DH86's and Short Singapores as you mentioned at the start.The Hudson must have been quite a boost to moral at that point in Dec.1941.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 10, 2011 22:01:28 GMT 12
The operationals patrols to protect home waters and chase suspicious vessels started in September 1939, with Vincents and Baffins. The Germans did not arrive in our waters till mid-1940 but many Home Guards and Navy people etc saw loads of suspicious ships and submarines before then, all likely to have been innocent vessels and whales. But once the Germans did arrive they wrought some havoc and kept the RNZAF very busy trying to chase them.
The guys all loved the Hudsons when they got them, they had far better equipment, range, armament, comfort, speed, and pece of mind with two engines, not to mention enclosed cockpits. So yes those chaps in Fiji must have loved seeing the Hudsons arrive, it must have been quite a few weeks as the first Singapores had just arrived too.
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Post by errolmartyn on Dec 10, 2011 22:15:33 GMT 12
Agghh. I just typed up a big long detailed explanation for your Damon, hit the Post Reply button and the bloody forum told me my request had timed out, and I lost the lot. Dave, When preparing a longish piece for a forum I tend to write it in WORD then paste the finished item into the forum. WORD is less far less likely to pack up unexpectedly than a forum, and if it does all or most of the content is usually saved anyway. Errol |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 10, 2011 22:46:55 GMT 12
Yeah I do that sometimes too. This one was not intended to be long initially, I just began to waffle and ramble... ;D
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 11, 2011 8:08:49 GMT 12
First flight was 10 December 1938, which would be 'today' here :-)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 11, 2011 11:09:11 GMT 12
Cool, well spotted Errol. Happy 73rd Birthday to the Hudson.
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Post by Damon on Dec 11, 2011 11:29:57 GMT 12
A few 'flights' early on in the pacific war were taken up to the islands.What was our first complete squadron that actually made it into theatre flying the Hudson? Was the 3 (BR) Sqaudron the first in 1942?
Also were the early 'flights' sent up to the islands actually understrength squadrons (perhaps general recon sqn) before they were formed into bomber recon squadrons laster on in the war?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 11, 2011 12:06:29 GMT 12
When you say 'into theatre' I assume you mean into the war zone where actual shooting and shelling was happening? That would be No. 3 (GR) Squadron at Espiritu Santo and then Guadalcanal.
Before that No. 4 (GR) Squadron was in the Paciifc (Fiji and patroling to Tonga and back) and No. 9 (GR) Squadron was in the Pacific (Plaine-des-Gaiacs) but they were not in the line of fire at either place.
When No. 3 Squadron left NZ for Santo, it was full strength, and had reduced its bombers from 18 to 15 to fit in with the US Navy strength of a squadron, as they became US Navy assets when they got there.
No. 4 Squadron was also a full strength squadron by the time it re-equipped with Hudsons. They had been flying 13 Vincents and two DH89's and two DH86's on patrols before they were replaced 1941-42, so by mid-1942 they'd been built up to full strength staff and close to full strength with Hudsons, but it varied as they continually rotated crews in and out up the island chain.
No. 9 (GR) Squadron was also full strength when No. 3 (GR) went north, but with 3GR losses they replaced some of them with 9GR crew and aircraft and eventually 9GR was reduced to a half strength squadron, as there were not enough turret and radar equipped Hudsons in the RNZAF for front line duties. They moved to Santo and took over some of No. 3GR's duties there. Once PV-1's arrived 9GR came home, re-equipped and went back to the Pacific with full strength again.
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Post by Damon on Dec 11, 2011 16:35:41 GMT 12
'In theatre' was my take of going to the Pacific islands after the war had started.Confusion abound.I ,now aware of air patrols undertaken against the German raiders. But was reffering to the threat of the Japanese advance in the south pacific. As swift as it was. 2 (GR) Squadron was our first 'modern' squadron in the pacific at that time of its deployment in Dec 9 1941. But as a flight (number of aircraft?) not as a full squadron. 3 Squadron left in Oct 1942. The RNZAF's full compliment of aircraft.Was that the first full squadron deployment of Hudsons to the pacific theatre?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 11, 2011 16:42:47 GMT 12
Yes the deployment of No. 3 (GR) was the first full squadron deployment as a complete unit.
The other two squadrons were different, 4GR was a full squadron that converted over time to Hudsons and 9GR was a newly formed unit that built up over time.
You will really enjoy the books when I get them finished. it is far too hard to attempt to summarise the operations of the Hudsons (which is where everyone who has attempted it previously has gotten it wrong).
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Post by Damon on Dec 11, 2011 16:53:00 GMT 12
So our reaction to the Pearl harbour air attack on the 7th of Dec was sending a composite flight of 1 and 2 Sqn aircraft and personnel to the pacific on Dec 9th.How well prepared were our crews? They must have mobilized a group quick smart to get them moving so soon after the Pearl Harbour attacks.Amazing since so many of the active servicemen were in Europe!
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