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Post by dewobz on Apr 10, 2012 13:27:36 GMT 12
On page 48 of 'Classic Warbirds' No. 6 the top photo caption reads, "Four No. 23 'Ghost Squadron' pilots with a Corsair named Marie...". Does anyone know what the serial number of this aircraft was? Clearly it was painted all over Gloss Sea Blue and therefore most likely a F4U-1D or FG-1D. I have (visually and extensively) searched ADF serials for her to no avail. Her serial number may have been in the vicinity of NZ5485 'Kohimarama IX' but a bunch of FG-1D Corsairs were assembled at Los Negros just prior to the cessation of hostilities and assigned NZ56-- serial numbers. Some of these aircraft are identified as having names, e.g. NZ5625 'Carol' and many of them, including 'Carol', went to Japan on HMS Glory in March 1946.
If someone does know, the next question follows automatically - Do you know in what style "Marie" was written?
Does anyone know of a photograph of her?
Finally (and now Monique really does think I'm dumb) - Does anyone have 1/48th scale decals that say "Marie" which they don't want?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 10, 2012 14:15:22 GMT 12
I know that in Japan Clarry Berryman's FG-1D Corsair was called Gremlin; another was called Raeline; and NZ5620 was called Nancy. I think there are others listed in Warren Russell's book but I'm living away from my copy right now.
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Post by Luther Moore on Apr 10, 2012 15:40:44 GMT 12
NZ5201 'Alma'
NZ5323 'Joan'
NZ5233 'Gloria Lyons'
NZ5333 'Fiona'
NZ5350 'Struggle buggy'
NZ5385 'Aline'
NZ5424 'Nan'
NZ5440 'Lil Audrey'
NZ5457 'Patricia Mary'
NZ5485 'Kohimarama IX'
NZ5545 'Corsair'
NZ5617 'Verna'
NZ5625 'Carol'
NZ5658 'Hepcat'
NZ5659 'Doris'
NZ5660 'Gremlin'
Serial numbers not known,
'My old flame'
'My old brave'
'Old faithful'
'Marie'
NZ5416 must not have been known when this book was written.
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Post by McFly on Apr 10, 2012 17:05:34 GMT 12
Not the serial number but a picture of 'Marie' nevertheless...  Negative Number: PR7141 Caption: 23 Squadron pilots with a Chance Vought Corsair. Bougainville. Further Information: Grim Reaper nose art painted under the cockpit and female figure with the name MARIE painted in front of the windscreen. Neg 7/856 Year of Image: 1945 Image Date Information: 24 July 1945.  Negative Number: PR7139 Caption: 23 Squadron pilots in flying gear with a Chance Vought Corsair. Bougainville. Further Information: Grim Reaper nose art painted under the cockpit and a figure with the name MARIE painted in front of the windscreen. Neg 7/854 Year of Image: 1945 Image Date Information: 24 July 1945 Format: Negative-5x4-B&W  (Photos Air Force Museum) |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 10, 2012 19:46:43 GMT 12
Great shots Marty
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Post by agalbraith on Apr 10, 2012 20:46:52 GMT 12
NZ5639 "KATHLEEN"
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Post by shorty on Apr 10, 2012 21:20:26 GMT 12
Anybody know those pilots names?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 10, 2012 21:42:37 GMT 12
NZ5416 must not have been known when this book was written. So what was the name on NZ5416? |
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Post by Luther Moore on Apr 10, 2012 21:47:33 GMT 12
TUTAE WERA.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 10, 2012 22:08:44 GMT 12
Oh of course. Cheers. (I don't have my books with me here).
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Post by Luther Moore on Apr 10, 2012 22:36:05 GMT 12
I copy and pasted the names and s/n's from somewhere else  |
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Post by dewobz on Apr 11, 2012 12:00:06 GMT 12
BRILLIANT!!!! Thank you all so much and especially Luther & McFly. That photo is just wonderful. A Kiwi Corsair with 'Vargas Girl' type artwork (albeit small) ... absolutely awesome! If I can find (or create) appropriate decals I may just have to guess at the serial number for my build. Once again, thank you. (Incidently, I took my NZ5416 Tutae Wera to my art course one time and a Maori friend asked, "Why would they name a plane 'Hot Shit'?" Tutae Wera being something like reverse transliteration I guess)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 11, 2012 12:10:11 GMT 12
NZ5385 'Aline' also had a pin-up girl artwork too, similar to Marie.
Someone else on here has said that Tutae Wera means Hot Shit. But several RNZAF aircraft including a Hudson and I think a Ventura wore the Tutae Wera name, and I have talked with two of the crew of Hudson Tutae Wera who both said it meant Shit Hot. I guess like most things with pre-1980's Maori language there were different regional interpretations of the phrase?
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Post by Bruce on Apr 11, 2012 14:56:38 GMT 12
Tutae = Shit
Wera= Hot
it can however be taken either way as many Maori adjectives are after the subject (sort of like stores descriptions!) e.g. Waiwera = hot water or water, hot
Tama iti = Boy, Small
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voy1d
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by voy1d on Mar 9, 2015 9:30:23 GMT 12
Apologies for replying and digging up an old thread however I believe I can assist with answering the question. According to my Grandpa's logbook (who flew with No. 23) on 11 July 1945 named NZ5373 Marie and had the picture printed on the plane. The exception is that the ADF serials page here, NZ5373 was with No. 16 squadron from 27 April. dewobz; I'll look at the thread on KM in the coming days. |
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Post by davidd on Mar 9, 2015 11:09:02 GMT 12
Personnel of 23 Squadron on third tour (Ardmore 28th May - 18th June 1945, Piva South/Bougainville, June - October 1945)
A/S/L D E Hogan (CO), plus F/L G R Brabyn (OC A Flight, later OC B Flight), and F/L J E Sanders (OC B Flight till killed 30/7/45) Note, this J E Sanders NOT to be confusd with the other F/L J E (James) Sanders who flew with RAF in Mediterranean, etc, also postwar with Auckland TAF Sqdn). Not certain at this stage who replaced Hogan as OC A Flight for rest of tour, but possible F/L F S Adeane.
P/O C H Skuse (Intelligence Officer)
A/Cpl R J Ritchie (squadron clerk), replaced LAC D E Jackson at Ardmore 18/6/45, just prior to departure for Bougainville.
"Line" pilots. Note, all pilots below served with squadron on previous tour at Emirau EXCEPT for Griffith, Donaldson, Ferguson, Rountree, Stirling and Daly, who joined the squadron for the Bougainville tour.
F/Os A F Adeane, F S Adeane (identical twins, both later to NAC), J L Callender, M S Gunton, R J H Leete, L S Pitcher, D M Thomas (later an NAC/ANZ pilot), E A R L Thompson.
P/Os L A Fraser, D Pollock, G L Nicholas (Note Pollock and Nicholas posted to Fighter Leaders School at Ardmore 10/6/45, prior to departure for B/Ville, thence posted to 21 Sqdn.)
W/Os R O Griffith, D H Trim.
F/Sgts R T Chisholm, J F C Crafar, H H Donaldson (lost 4/7/45), A H Ferguson, T A Mitchell, E P O'Reilly (did not go overseas), A H Parry, A W Rountree, R J Scott (posted to OSI Woodbourne 16/6/45 prior to departure, later to 16 Sqdn), W R Searle, G S Stirling, D R Thorp.
Sgt A L Daly.
Three further pilots arrived as replacements on Bougainville: F/Sgt B F Brough, on ops from 9/7/45, plus F/Sgt R F Jans and W/O R N Westlake, both on ops from 9/8/45.
23 Squadron never flew any FG-1Ds on its tour at Bouganiville (based on 25 SU), just 15 earlier F4U-1s (NZ5308, 356, 370, 372, 373, 374, 376, 378, 379, 380, 381, 385, 388, 389, 390), plus six F4U-1Ds (NZ5465, 469, 478, 485, 486, 487) till at least 6/9/45 (after war that is). After this the Corsairs got rather scrambled up between SU's as they were all transferrd to a production line at Piva which had to remove all engines for crankshaft checks and modifications, with hardly any of the aircraft being returned to their original SUs - 25 SU ended up with only 3 of its original -1s and just one of its -1Ds.
Hope this stimulates some memories before it is all too late! M S (Mal) Gunton survived in RNZAF until 1978, serving in Japan with 14 Sqdn, then famously devoted much of rest of his career to the Catalina, Sunderland and Orion operations, and Maritime Wing HQ.
David D
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voy1d
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by voy1d on Mar 9, 2015 11:22:20 GMT 12
My grandpa is EARL Thompson.
As I also understand it he was the last person to have the squadron logbook and this is currently with the Fighter Musuem at Wigram.
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Post by davidd on Mar 9, 2015 11:41:23 GMT 12
voy1d,
Glad to hear that it has ended up there! I wonder how he managed to get it in the first place? Or perhaps one shouldn't ask if it has all turned out for the best. Wonder if that book has any of the official photographs included within its pages - they sometimes did things like that - perhaps we will get dome identifications after all. I have seen that photo before somewhere.
David D
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voy1d
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 4
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Post by voy1d on Mar 9, 2015 12:21:24 GMT 12
From what I understand speaking to my father and my grandpa's brother is that No. 23 was pretty disorganised with record keeping.
It got sent around various people within the squadron to complete and ended up with my grandpa's brother after my grandpa passed away.
Given the age of the other surviving pilots (late 80's early 90's) my grandpa's brother forwarded it on to the musuem. I'm thinking I'll contact them to find out more about it.
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Post by davidd on Mar 9, 2015 13:22:58 GMT 12
Regarding No. 16 Sqdn pilots flying NZ5373, this is correct. However the common denominator is that this aircraft (along with about 11 others) was ferried from Espiritu Santo (where they had been since about August/September 1944) northwards to Guadalacanal on 26th April 1945, thence to Bougainville on the 27th (5373 was ferried by F/O G C Howie). Another 8 aircraft were ferried up over same route on 2nd and 4th May to complete the transfer of 25 SU's aircraft to the "operational" area. 16 Sqdn continued to fly these aircraft from Piva on operations until 20/6/45, after which 23 Sqdn pilots arrived and took them over, commencing 23rd June.
David D
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