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Post by phil82 on May 27, 2012 9:27:09 GMT 12
What a magnificent job of work being done on that Mosquito, and what a huge pity it is for us that it is for an overseas customer.
Speaking from experience...you haven't lived until you've heard a low-level full-chat run by a Mosquito....[he says smugly!]
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Post by baz62 on May 27, 2012 11:16:34 GMT 12
Thanks for the links JDK. Love that first low level canopy to crowd pass from the left! And she has a distinctive sound doesn't she? Looking forward to seeing a real one in the air up close one day soon! I didn't comment on the F-for Freddie because I have known about that story. Up to others who may not have read about it to comment. And it is best to care about photo shopping as someone will think its real and pass it off as such.
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Post by JDK on May 29, 2012 22:19:51 GMT 12
Thanks for the links JDK. Love that first low level canopy to crowd pass from the left! Pleasure. Was, and remains one of my favourite aircraft. Absolutely! I was delighted to see three Mozzies in NZ with Dave H in January, and I'll be back for the AvSpecs flyer... Fair enough! Sad, unnecessary tragedy. Yessss. Speaking as someone whose professionally retoched real negs and prints and done some pretty low grade PhotoShop work, the thing is, I remain unconvinced either way. I agree that there are a number of apparently dubious clues - the difference of grain in the aircraft to the background, the edge and aspects of the tailwheel as highlighted earlier. On the other hand I've seen several shots of Pat flying it just like that, although not memorably that shot; so it's hardly a fraudulent concept. Anyway, back to the first Kiwi-built Mozzie - much anticipated worldwide... Regards,
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Post by lumpy on May 29, 2012 23:24:55 GMT 12
Anyway, back to the first Kiwi-built Mozzie - much anticipated worldwide... Regards, Kiwi restored Mossie !!!!
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Post by oggie2620 on May 30, 2012 8:59:13 GMT 12
Its great seeing the photos on Facebook too! Dee
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Post by beagle on May 30, 2012 17:58:08 GMT 12
I did a lot of getting around the countryside in F-27, Yep, very, very low at times. I think most military pilots could handle that ok, as for actually hitting buildings then that is something different. someone told me once, a few years back in the wigram baggies bar, that a friendship was so low that spray from a wave went over the cockpit windows. we were all amazed and in awe.
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Post by JDK on May 31, 2012 14:05:37 GMT 12
Anyway, back to the first Kiwi-built Mozzie - much anticipated worldwide... Regards, Kiwi restored Mossie !!!! I know what I said, and I meant what I said. They were built in the UK, Canada and Australia, and given the work of Glyn Powell and the Avspecs people, I don't think it's unreasonable to add NZ to that list, now. Regards,
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Post by Tony on May 31, 2012 14:13:51 GMT 12
given the work of Glynn Powell and the Avspecs people, I don't think it's unreasonable to add NZ to that list, now. Regards, Good point
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 31, 2012 14:31:23 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 1, 2012 11:47:36 GMT 12
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Post by lumpy on Jun 1, 2012 12:40:26 GMT 12
Kiwi restored Mossie !!!! I know what I said, and I meant what I said. They were built in the UK, Canada and Australia, and given the work of Glynn Powell and the Avspecs people, I don't think it's unreasonable to add NZ to that list, now. Regards, Sorry , didnt mean to nit pick , nor take anything away from the current restorers ( whose work is probably higher in standard to original ) . I was just pointing out that ( to me anyway ) , if you are going to claim an identity to an airframe ( as Avspecs and Glyn do ) under restoration , then it has to be considered a rebuild .( no matter how complex ) It doesnt really make any difference and is a discussion that comes up a lot ( New build vs Rebuild )
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 1, 2012 12:44:44 GMT 12
The question comes to my mind, did de Havilland New Zealand ever have to rebuild a Mosquito when we had them in service from 1946-1952? I know they had three times the number of spare aircraft in storage as they had flying so probably not I guess,
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Post by ZacYates on Jun 1, 2012 15:04:00 GMT 12
I'd say not Dave, the best person to ask would be Glyn himself as he's done enough research to tell us for sure.
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Post by JDK on Jun 1, 2012 16:51:58 GMT 12
Sorry , didnt mean to nit pick , nor take anything away from the current restorers ( whose work is probably higher in standard to original ) . I was just pointing out that ( to me anyway ) , if you are going to claim an identity to an airframe ( as Avspecs and Glyn do ) under restoration , then it has to be considered a rebuild .( no matter how complex ) It doesnt really make any difference and is a discussion that comes up a lot ( New build vs Rebuild ) Nits unbothered! Just to be crystal clear, it is indeed a rebuild, with an original id and substantial original (DH, var & Air Min) parts. However given the depth of the reconstruction required, including all new wood particularly, I would also (while acknowledging the above) feel it appropriate to recognise it as also the first NZ Mosquito build from the ground up. The work of restoration by Glyn and AvSpecs IMHO is equivalent to the construction workload in any of the 'other' DH Mosquito factories, and should be recognised as such at the same time as recognising this Mosquito's heritage. Regards,
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 1, 2012 17:16:20 GMT 12
A bit like a lot of the wonderful original WWI aircraft in NZ which have been rebuilt from the ground up...
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Post by lumpy on Jun 1, 2012 18:21:28 GMT 12
Nits unbothered! Just to be crystal clear, it is indeed a rebuild, with an original id and substantial original (DH, var & Air Min) parts. However given the depth of the reconstruction required, including all new wood particularly, I would also (while acknowledging the above) feel it appropriate to recognise it as also the first NZ Mosquito build from the ground up. The work of restoration by Glynn and AvSpecs IMHO is equivalent to the construction workload in any of the 'other' DH Mosquito factories, and should be recognised as such at the same time as recognising this Mosquito's heritage. Regards, Totally agree . In fact I'd go so far as to say that the skills and work involved in a restoration of this magnitude probabaly far exceed those required to do the original build . I guess to some people the term " rebuild " or " restoration " implies something less than a full " build" ( more akin to a refurbishment ) , but thats certainly not the case . Truely a fantastic acheivment ( and very well done by all involved ).
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Post by John L on Jun 3, 2012 13:30:11 GMT 12
The 2 Moth Minors, AKM and BFP would also come under the same category - as would the Fox Moths in NZ - all new wood with mainly original metalwork.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jun 3, 2012 13:57:05 GMT 12
Ahmmmmm, and just how much of the Cessna 180 and 185 fleet would have departed Wichita in it's present form ? These are 'relatively' new aircraft..
Many of the aircraft I work on have had wings replaced, an assortment of minor and major skin replacements and of course the original engine and prop were worn out long ago.
Just as long as we have a Data Plate and it conforms.. the original logbooks may, or may not be, still in existence.
It is the new norm for our present day aviation fleet.
Did you see the background of the balloon that crashed at Carterton ?
The Mosquitos will be perfect rebuilds, in many respects..
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Post by jonesy on Jun 3, 2012 14:52:17 GMT 12
So when its roaring overhead and looking & sounding perfect will people be saying "oh thats a nice rebuild"or "thats an OK restoration"?? I think not!! What will probably be heard will be lots of Oooohs and Aaaahs (and probably the odd wow as well!). Enjoy the show guys, even if the next few months could be a bit of an agonising wait-kinda like waiting for a baby to be born....
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Post by JDK on Jun 4, 2012 21:22:26 GMT 12
Hi Jon L, With all due respect to rebuilders and maintainers of light and GA aircraft historic and new (and that's a lot of respect) the point I was driving at was that is is one of the most challenging rebuilds in warbird history. This isn't a 'Moth' but a W.W.II high-performance medium bomber, and none of the other multi-engine warbird bombers now flying have been rebuilt with an all new fuselage and wing loadbearing structure. Additionally, no-one has rebuilt a Mosquito to fly. Several have been restored, but none fully rebuilt.
baronbeeza - there's a clear difference in an artefacts history between a) in-service maintenance (which includes part replacement and in service rebuilds) and b) preservation-era deviation from service era originality. What happens to and changes in an aircraft's service is part of its history. Changes made in preservation are subtracting from the artefacts history and originality.
In the case of this Mosquito the reconstruction and work required to safely return it to flight allow for a lot of loss of material to achieve a flying and wonderful aircraft, rather than an original wreck.
This wasn't intended to open the often misunderstood questions or originality and identity, purely an - it seemed to me - appropriate compliment to an underrated New Zealander achievement.
To call it the first New Zealand built Mosquito is, in one particular sense, a fair measure of that achievement.
Regards,
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