New War Memorial Park planned for Wellington

[Dave Homewood]

I forgot that last week i saw something briefly on the news that plans are underway to build a new park in Central Wellington to mark 100 years of WWI, or was it the centenary of the Gallipoli campaign. The report said that the plan will see State Highway One dropped underground into a tunnel, and the park built over the top, at a coast of $90 million, and the park is to take in the National War Memorial, Tomb of the Unknown Warrior and the Carrillion.

The plan sounds good in theory and I am far more in favour of commemorating such things that the average kiwi I think, but when I think about the huge cost and the upheaval this will cause to traffic during construction, I cannot understand why this is not being done instead in Christchurch, taking in a swathe of the land that the Government has already been forced to buy as it's untenable for buildings after the quakes. Surely such land would be far more suited to parkland than creating an artificial one in Wellington. There's be no need for huge disruption to the roads and the cost could be so much less.

what do others think of this?

[Dave Homewood]

Here's an article on this:

New War Memorial Park for Wellington
By Isaac Davison 9:00 AM Tuesday Aug 7, 2012

A National War Memorial Park will be developed in the middle of Wellington to mark the 100th anniversary of Gallipoli, Prime Minister John Key revealed this morning.

Mr Key announced plans to fast-track the project in Mount Cook so it would be ready in time for Anzac Day in 2015.

The new park would link the existing memorial, the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior, the Hall of Memories and the National Carillion.

"This will be an enduring reminder to our children and their children, so they can better understand our past," Mr Key said.

The project required a $75 million redevelopment of State Highway One, which currently divided the site.

An underpass would be created beneath the new park so that a large open space could be developed in front of the existing memorial.

Mr Key said the park would be a centrepiece of the World War II centenary and would commemorate the 100,000 New Zealanders who went to war, the 18,000 who died, and the 40,000 wounded.

The Australian Government was also planning a memorial for the park.

Minister of Arts, Culture and Heritage Chris Finlayson said the park would provide an opportunity to recognise military conflicts which did not have a national memorial in New Zealand, such as the country's ongoing role in peacekeeping.

The development of the site was expected to cost $12 million, of which the Wellington City Council would contribute $2.11 million.

The New Zealand Transport Agency would oversee the construction of the underpass, which was estimated to cost $70-75 million.

Wellington Mayor Celia Wade-Brown said the park would give New Zealanders the opportunity to commemorate fallen soldiers "without the noise of traffic".

A minute's silence was held at the unveiling of the plans for Lance Corporals Rory Malone and Pralli Durrer, who were killed in combat in Afghanistan's Bamiyan Province on Saturday.

Mr Key said the deaths "bluntly reminded" New Zealanders of the sacrifices servicemen made.

[Dave Homewood]

So Wellington council is only kicking in a couple of million dollars, yet Wellingtonians will get all the benefit while the rest of the nation pays for it, yet again. And $75 million (which will no doubt rise to $100 million, will be diverted from much more needed national roading projects just so a few metres of land can be turned into park. I have to say I am really not a fan of this idea, it's typical Wellington bullshit and the sacrifices made in WWI can be much better commemorated.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

It's actually central government politicans who are behind this (and more of those are from Auckland as a block than anywhere else).

The last government came up with the idea, and the Wellington City Council simply went along with it (they couldn't very well do anything else, as the National War Memorial is owned by central government, as is SH1, and the school across the road). Then, the government changed in 2008 and the new government went cold on the idea. Now however, the current government have suddenly decided they want it completed by the 100th anniversary of the Anzac landings, except that they are now going to ram legislation through Parliament under urgency, which will effectively block Welliingtonians from having their full say for or against it.

So don't blame Wellingtonians, Dave....blame central government politicans (of which MPs representing the Wellington area are but a tiny minority in Parliament).

[phil82]

Aug 17, 2012 0:27:32 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

So Wellington council is only kicking in a couple of million dollars, yet Wellingtonians will get all the benefit while the rest of the nation pays for it, yet again. And $75 million (which will no doubt rise to $100 million, will be diverted from much more needed national roading projects just so a few metres of land can be turned into park. I have to say I am really not a fan of this idea, it's typical Wellington bullshit and the sacrifices made in WWI can be much better commemorated.

It actually isn't typical Wellington Bullshit, nor Parliament bullshit, but devastating logic!

The facts are, however, that two National War Memorials are already on the site; The Carillon being one, and the other being the Tomb of The Unknown Warrior. So there will always be national dedications and parades held there, but the solemnity of those, in my humble view, will always be compromised by the existence of Buckle Street which runs between access to the Tomb and what is now an empty space across the road. So it is not BS to improve the site for those special occasions, and especially before the Centennial of WW1 and Gallipoli.

Closing the road isn't really an option because it is a part of SH1, so going under it is by far the best solution.

[fwx]

Nothing against it in principle, but it will be a very expensive piece of grass! What angers me is that this kind of money is available to remember the long-gone servicemen, when the government has been so budgetary-minded in acknowledging the very few WW2 guys who are still with us.

[Dave Homewood]

Exactly my point, it is a huge price for an expensive piece of grass and what looks from the artist's impression some concrete for the skatboarders. And as the decision comes from Parliament, it is Wellington bullshit. They all work and live there.

And your point about the peny-pinching for the living WWII veteans is absolutely spot on. $90 million for this and they cannot spare a couple of thousand veterans who are still with us and contributing to society.

[fwx]

Looks like the usual central planning vs. local nimby cock-up anyway - a flyover AND a tunnel!!!

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10827553

[mumbles]

Aug 17, 2012 10:33:39 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

And as the decision comes from Parliament, it is Wellington bullshit. They all work and live there.

And if Parliament was in Auckland it would be Auckland bullshit no doubt by that logic. Parliament represents NZ, not just Wellington. Parliament is where it is, and it happens to be co-located with the existing National Memorials, possibly because of the slight consideration of Wellington being the capital city of NZ where you would expect such things to be located. Your argument about this being somehow a strictly parochial local decision I'm finding difficult to follow.
Creating another in Christchurch immediately creates a protocol headache. How do you decide which ceramonies take place in either, and what effect that has on the significance accorded those ceremonies?

[Dave Homewood]

I never said it was strictly parochial, and I am not blaming the people of Wellington at all - they too will have to fund this along with the rest of the nation, although most people outside the city will never ever use nor even ever see it as it is purely coming out of central Wellington and is purely centred there.

Regardless of the semantics, I cannot see the need for any of this, it's a waste of money for a scheme thought up by a bunch of jumped up little noters in Wellington and it is being forced on the nation to pay for, when we haven't the money to throw around and at the expense of other much more worthy projects. Burying a perfectly good piece of road when there are terrible roads that need fixing elsewhere just so the Mayor of Wellington doesn't have to hear traffic is pathetic.

If they really have to spend the money on commemorating WWI, which isn't a bad thing, why not divide the huge sum up to museums around the country to help them promote the memory of what New Zealanders did in WWI with permanent and meaningful displays (the AHC at Omaka, TVAL's hangar at Masterton, Wellington's museums, Auckland War Memorial Museum, the Royal new Zealand Navy Museum, the Royal New Zealand Air Force Musuem, The Army Museum, Canterbury Museum, Dunedin, Hamilton, Tauranga, Invercargill, and many others could all benefit as could the people all over NZ who live outside of Wellington, not just a few people in Wellingotn who can stand on an empty lawn. Each of those musuems could get several million dollars from that huge sum and future generations could learn a lot more from such a scheme than they can from a piece of lawn.

[mumbles]

Aug 17, 2012 11:24:58 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

although most people outside the city will never ever use nor even ever see it

That would apply to any other location in the country, Auckland Christchurch, wherever.

Aug 17, 2012 11:24:58 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Regardless of the semantics, I cannot see the need for any of this, it's a waste of money for a scheme thought up by a bunch of jumped up little noters in Wellington and it is being forced on the nation to pay for, when we haven't the money to throw around and at the expense of other much more worthy projects. Burying a perfectly good piece of road when there are terrible roads that need fixing elsewhere just so the Mayor of Wellington doesn't have to hear traffic is pathetic.

You're still making this a "blame Wellington" argument. Wellington is just where it happens to be, not a causative factor in the funding decision. As someone who travels it often, it isn't that awesome a piece of road. Overloaded, compromised in location and surroundings, and improvable in several ways.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

They should be building a NEW National War Memorial (with associated Hall of Memories, Carillon and Tomb of the Unknown Warrior) in Cambridge....then we'd all be able to have a go at Dave (and other Cambridge folks).

Fair enough?

[Dave Homewood]

You two have got me all wrong. It doesn't matter where it is, the decision has been made in Wellington (Parliament) and announced there and will be there. But if this was to happen were anywhere else in the country and they were doing this whole dropping of the main road to make a lawn for $90 million at Parliament's whim, it would still be a complete waste of money. It's a lawn FFS.

As I said they should divide up that massive sum of money around the museums of the whole nation so a much greater proportion of the population benefits. Stop being so one-eyed and realise what I'm saying.

[ngatimozart]

Wellington is the Capital City and as there are preexisting memorials i.e.,the Carillion and the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior it is only logical and right that the memorial park be completed. Our Glorious Dead, as some writers call them, deserve a fit and proper National Memorial to honour them. They made the ultimate sacrifice. Anything less is a travesty. Our country owes them that. It also owes the survivors and families too, so to me it is money well spent and about bloody time.

It is not a Wellington Vs rest of NZ bullshit. It is a National Memorial and as such it should be located in our capital city and paid for by the state. Yes there is vacant land in ChCh but it is not the place to for a national memorial.

[Dave Homewood]

BUT there is a "fit and proper National Memorial to honour them" there already. And a fine tribute it already is too. It doesn't need a front lawn attached for $90 million.

[phil82]

Aug 17, 2012 16:14:02 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

BUT there is a "fit and proper National Memorial to honour them" there already. And a fine tribute it already is too. It doesn't need a front lawn attached for $90 million.

That's a gross distortion of fact Dave! It isn't "a lawn", but a proper assembly area for participants, on land which previously accommodated 'temporary' buildings. There is currently nowhere for ceremonial activities which take place every year on Armistice Days and ANZAC days, and as a result the NATIONAL MEMORIAL is somewhat demeaned. I attended the Unknown Soldier ceremony with a Canadian visitor and like me he found the space available for a hugely significant NATIONAL ceremony was somewhat ridiculously inhibited. If you want to visit the tomb there is virtually no parking spaces available as these are largely taken up by Massey University, which now owns the buildings above the site.

I notice you forgot to mention the huge upheaval to traffic during recent construction of the Victoria Park tunnel in Auckland, at a vastly higher cost than will apply at Buckle Street. which is a minor job in comparison. So what is your objection really?

[Dave Homewood]

I have said my objection several times. If they feel the need to spend that much money for the 100th, spread it around a large variety of the nation's museums, end of story.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

from The Dominion Post....

Historic army store could be demolished

Empty for more than 25 years, the NZDF's former store
and headquarters in Mount Cook could face demolition.

By AMY JACKMAN | 1:32PM - Thursday, 16 October 2014


LEFT BEHIND: The Defence Force former store and headquarters at the corner of Buckle
and Taranaki streets. — AMY JACKMAN/Fairfax NZ.

MUCH OF Buckle Street is getting a facelift, but one corner remains old and boarded up.

The Defence Force's derelict former store and headquarters, on the corner of Buckle and Taranaki streets, has been empty for more than 25 years and there is no plan for it to be upgraded.

A Defence Force spokesman said the building was a significant risk in an earthquake and had to be demolished or brought up to building code. It was New Zealand Defence Force's highest-risk asset.

There was no set plan for the future of the building, because despite being next door to the new War Memorial Park, the old army building was not needed for the development.

The brick building is a category 2 historic place, meaning it has historical or cultural heritage significance. It was built in 1912, after the expansion of the territorial army meant more facilities were needed.

In 1913, the administration building was involved in a battle, when Buckle Street was the setting for violence caused by the waterfront strikes. Rioting raged up and down the street and the building still bears the marks of gunfire.

From 1929 it was the defence headquarters and was reconditioned from a storeroom at a cost of £1,461 ($138,000 now). The Defence Force moved out in 1949 and it has been empty since the 1980s.

Other occupants included the Government Accommodation Board, the Health Department's education branch and the Department of Internal Affairs.

The Defence Force, Wellington City Council, Ministry for Culture and Heritage and Heritage New Zealand will talk about options for the site in the coming weeks. The cost of any development has not been determined.

However, the Memorial Park architect would be used to ensure the building complements the park.

www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/10620768/Historic-army-store-could-be-demolished

[phil82]

I was up at the Carillon and Tomb a few days ago, and there are now dozens of architectural illustrations of what the finished area will look like, and a lawn it ain't! There is now , or will be, a large ceremonial cum seating space for full military recognition of NATIONAL commemorations. The underpass is finished and in use, and will make a huge difference when it's all completed.

[nuuumannn]

Personally, I think we are getting a bit worked up and far too parochial in our attitudes to this. Like it or not, Wellington is our capital city. Why not put it there? It is a terrific gesture and yes, it will be expensive, but it's a fitting cause, to be frank.