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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 17, 2012 12:58:59 GMT 12
I have currently been loaned the Flying Logbooks of RNZAF fighter pilot Brian Thompson, who flew with No. 486 (NZ) Squadron. His logbook has entries during the two periods of his flying with No. 486 (NZ) Squadron and for some he has noted both the serial number and the squadron code, while others note serials alone. I thought it would be worth sharing these details with others as they are of interest to historians and modellers alike. These are serials from his first tour with No. 486 (NZ) Squadron dating
Hurricanes at Kirton on Lindsey 26th March 1942 to 8th April 1942:
A5233 - Mk IIB
B5217 - Mk IIB
D3780 - Mk IIB
E3672 - Mk IIB
G4969 - Mk II
J7719 - Mk I
K5309 - Mk IIB
L3434 - Mk IIC
Hurricane IIB's at Wittering 11th April 1942 to 18 May 1942
A5233 - Mk IIB
B3502 - Mk IIB
B5217 - Mk IIB
D3780 - Mk IIB
E3672 - Mk IIB
G4967 - Mk IIB
G4969 - Mk II
K5309 - Mk IIB
L3434 - Mk IIC
M3353 - Mk IIB
H 621 - Mk IIA
Note: H 621 is noted many times, I don't know why it has the odd serial like that.
These entries are from his second tour in "B" Flight with No. 486 (NZ) Squadron at Tangmere and date from 7th of May 1943 to 24th of October 1943
Hawker Hurricane 4649 "O"
Tiger Moth DE 680
Hawker Typhoon IBs (serial then squadron code)
DN368 - N
N225 - N (replacement)
EJ948 - P
JP869 - P (replacement)
DN316 - Q
R8699 - S
JP667 - S (replacement)
JP532 - T
DN611 - U
EJ976 - V
JP839 - V (replacement)
EK135 - W
EJ915 - Y
R8697 - Z
EJ948 - Z (seems to have changed from P to Z)
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Post by davidd on Nov 18, 2012 9:30:47 GMT 12
These are rather confusing aircraft identifications as many are in fact combination individual aircraft (within squadron) letter, plus the number part of the serial WITHOUT the letter/letters prefix (if three numbers, two letters, if four numbers, then one letter prefix.) I have always blamed this particular habit on fact that RNZAF logbooks (and I presume RAF ones, on which the NZ ones were based) had the aircraft indentity column headed up "Aircraft number". This presumably got the NZ aircrew members into the bad habit of ignoring the prefix letters, although this was not a problem in NZ where ALL the aircraft numbers had the "NZ" prefix. However, when they reached the UK it was a different story. In the 1937/38 era there were K, L, N and P prefixes in use, and this soon multiplied with thousands of Wellingtons, Hurricanes, Spitfires, Battles, Blenheims, Oxfords, Hudsons, Tiger Moths etc pouring into the service in a fast-rising tide. It can take some working out what the RAF prefix is the correct one for each of these aircraft, and recourse has to be made to the unit ORB to try and arrive at the answer, if this is in fact possible. Nevertheless we have to thank you Dave for providing this information, as the Hurricane period of 486's history is not well known. Fortunately their ORB is quite good at providing these prefixes from memory, I have notes on them somewhere - as you note, most are varieties of the MK. II but there were a few elderly MK. Is for training purposes. The Typhoons are better identified as most have the correct prefixes (DN, EJ, EK, JP prefixes, also the two "R" aircraft) but the "N225" is obviously requiring a two-letter prefix - the "N" is the individual a/c letter.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 18, 2012 9:37:34 GMT 12
Thanks David, I did wonder if this was the case for the Hurricanes.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 18, 2012 15:58:00 GMT 12
Just for interest here is a great photo (credited on the back to Sport & General) of No. 486 (NZ) Squadron at RAF Wittering in the Hurricane era.  I recognise Harvey Sweetman, standing sixth from left with his hands in his pockets, and I think Brian Thompson is standing eighth from left. Does anyone recognise other faces? |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 18, 2012 15:59:04 GMT 12
That photo almost as a 3-dimensional affect, don't you think?
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Post by davidd on Nov 19, 2012 8:43:01 GMT 12
Dave,
It is a great photo all right, exceptional I think, also gives a good idea of the finish of these Hurricane night fighters (but without the anti-glare shields fitted!) in the sooty finish, and great view of the Rotol hydraulic propeller with Jablo wooden blades. Also it looks like a Mk. IIB with the additional Browning guns fitted outboard of the landing lights. I make 19 pilots, plus two ground staff on wing and one non-flying officer in front row, extreme left (kneeling). The latter chap has some kind of lapel badge, perhaps medical? Also the tall, bareheaded pilot standing fifth from right appears to have some obscure badge on his (right to us) breast pocket. Anybody who knows the fellows should be able to identify them pretty easily.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 19, 2012 9:04:42 GMT 12
Well I am also puzzled by the older chap. I wondered if his lapel badges were VR for Volunteer Reserve but he has shoulder titles that could be CANADA or POLAND, they look too short a word for NEW ZEALAND, don't they? Note he also has medal ribbons, maybe WWI?  The other fellow is easier, he's wearing a silver fern badge.  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 19, 2012 9:10:42 GMT 12
I note that Harvey Sweetman is not wearing New Zealand shoulder flashes despite being RNZAF. Were such flashes not mandatory?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 19, 2012 9:23:05 GMT 12
A brain wave, I will use the forum's own attachment uploader to place a much larger version on here. Click the thumbnail for more detail. Attachments:
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Post by baz62 on Nov 19, 2012 11:47:19 GMT 12
Thats a fantastic photo Dave, a good idea too for posting large format photos on the site without cocking up the text eh?  |
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Post by pjw4118 on Nov 19, 2012 18:47:39 GMT 12
I have had a look through Jim Sheddens logbook and album and he carefully records aircraft letter but no serial number. Even the typed Personal Combat Reports record only the aircraft type ( Tempest ) and the position Jim was flying ( Pink 1) . In his book with Norman Franks " Tempest Pilot" Appendix III lists the aircraft serials and letter codes of the Typhoons and Tempests he flew on ops. Maybe these came from ORBs.
The best entry is September 28 1945 " Fuesler Stuatch , Duty .. Goose shooting ....Pilot Self ..Passengers G/Cptn Jonny Johnson & W/Ca Mike Ingle -Finch ..1.10 hours...six geese destroyed in the air "
Jim told me they had had a few beers and wanted something for the larder. After a very dicey takeoff after picking up some of the birds , they realised it would look pretty bad if a couple of fighter aces were killed by a couple of geese. The mission was abandoned.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 19, 2012 19:14:05 GMT 12
Haha, yeah Jim told me that story too. Hilarious.
He must have still been pissed when he wrote Fieseler Storch.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 19, 2012 22:12:48 GMT 12
Here is the other photo of No. 486 (NZ) Squadron in Brian's logbook. It is later in the Typhoon era, and probably at Tangmere I guess. There are several faces in this shot who're in the earlier Hurricane shots. Attachments:
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Post by davidd on Nov 20, 2012 9:06:23 GMT 12
I have checked up my notes from 486 Squadron ORB, and the following non-flying personnel are listed as being on strength in March 1942 (the month of formation). F/O H Hagen (Engineer Officer, posted in from Digby 11/3/42), P/O A W A Oliver (Intelligence Officer, from HQFC 17/3/42), P/O H Tess (Adjutant, from 4 Sqdn 20/3/42), and F/O G M Kilgour (Medical Officer, from No. 11 RC 23/3/42). Perhaps the latter is our non-flying officer in the photo?
The Servicing Echlelon for the squadron (strictly speaking, not on squadron strength) comprised just four flight sergeants, two sergeants, ten corporals, and 113 other ranks, all posted in between 8 and 31/3/42. I note the two airmen on the wing (one cpl, one LAC) seem to have "New Zealand" shoulder flashes (i/d badges), thanks to the higher resolution scan. Note that the original intelligence officer (Oliver) was posted away to HQFC (Headquarters, Fighter Command) at Stanmore,on 30/3/42, and was replaced same day by P/O Thomas (no initials given) from 12 Group, Watnall.
And under the higher scan it is obvious that the Hurricane has the twelve-gun wing - the muzzles, although hidden behind the doped-on patches, are pretty obvious.
Original pilots of squadron included the CO (S/L C L C Roberts, arrived 9/3/42), F/Ls J G Clouston and H N Sweetman (respectively i/c of A and B Flights), plus P/Os I H Irvin, A E Umbers, and B Ingram (all NZers, from 152, 74, 611 sqdns respectively), and F/Sgt G G Thomas, Sgts G E Rawson, I D Waddy (three from 603 Sqdn), R I Phillips, R J Dall, J Pearse (three from 132 Sqdn), and W B Tyerman (from 74 Sqdn). This makes just 13 pilots so far.
On 18/3/42 another six pilots were posted in from 52 OTU (Sgts G W Preston, C N Gall, N E Preston, E Murphy, R Fitzgibbon, and A N Sames, presume all RNZAF?)
On 24/3/42, another eight pilots posted in ex 56 OTU (P/Os V C Fittal, A H Smith, L V Weir, A J Woodgate, Sgts H Saward, R Thompson L Walker, R Taylor-Cannon), to bring strength up to 27 in all, which would seem to be full establishment. All the P/O pilots in this group were RNZAF. I have a feeling that most of the NCO pilots listed were RNZAF as well.
No doubt these comprise the bulk of those we can see in the photograph.
David D
PS, presume this photograph has appeared in some of the books detailing the history of 486 Squadron, so the identifications may already have been made for us.
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Post by davidd on Nov 20, 2012 9:56:31 GMT 12
Just to sort out the Hurricane serial number prefixs as listed at top of this thread, the mysterious H 621 is DG621/H (a Mk I converted to a Mk. II). Practically all the four digit aircraft should have the "Z" prefix (and are Mk. II variants), but 7719 (an original Mk. I) is a mystery to me at this stage. Other Hurricanes used by 486 Sqdn include BV160, 169 (Mk. IIs converted from Mk.Is); AG150, 184, 216 (Mk.Is), and BD725, 728.
Interesting to note at the time of formation of 486, on the other side of the world No. 488 was also re-equipping with Mk. II Hurricanes (as were many of the other squadrons in this theatre), and not surprisingly they were also receiving brand new Mk.II variants (including a lot of the 12-gun Mk.IIBs) with serials in the Z, BD, BG and BM serial ranges.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 20, 2012 10:22:38 GMT 12
I wonder if the shoulder flas on the possible Medical Officer is actually something to do with his medical position? RAMC?
That pilot R. Thompson in your list should be B.C. Thompson (or Brian Connatt Thompson NZ412285, later 132286, born 18 Nov 1916, died 10 Jan 2012). These were his photos. He was posted into No. 486 (NZ) Squadron the first time on 24th of March 1942.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 20, 2012 10:31:36 GMT 12
So a redux on the original Hurricane list, thanks to Mr Duxbury's reseach - cheers David.
Hurricanes at Kirton on Lindsey 26th March 1942 to 8th April 1942:
Z5233 "A" - Mk IIB
Z5217 "B" - Mk IIB
Z3780 "D" - Mk IIB
Z3672 - "E" Mk IIB
Z4969 "G" - Mk II
?7719 "J" - Mk I
Z5309 "K" - Mk IIB
Z3434 "L" - Mk IIC
Hurricane IIB's at Wittering 11th April 1942 to 18 May 1942
Z5233 "A" - Mk IIB
Z3502 "B" - Mk IIB
Z5217 "B" - Mk IIB
Z3780 "D" - Mk IIB
Z3672 "E"- Mk IIB
Z4967 "G" - Mk IIB
Z4969 "G" - Mk II
Z5309 "K"- Mk IIB
Z3434 "L" - Mk IIC
Z3353 "M" - Mk IIB
DG621 "H" - Mk IIA
Other No. 486 Squadron Hurricanes not flown by Brian Thompson on the unit
BV160 - Mk. II converted from Mk.I
BV169 - Mk. II converted from Mk.I
AG150 - Mk. I
AG184 - Mk. I
AG216 - Mk. I
BD725
BD728
Later Hack Used in Tangmere Typhoon period
Hawker Hurricane 4649 "O"
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 20, 2012 10:34:37 GMT 12
I wonder if the oddball Mk I, serial ?7719 was a hack at the time?
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Post by errolmartyn on Nov 20, 2012 11:53:05 GMT 12
Well I am also puzzled by the older chap. I wondered if his lapel badges were VR for Volunteer Reserve but he has shoulder titles that could be CANADA or POLAND, they look too short a word for NEW ZEALAND, don't they? Note he also has medal ribbons, maybe WWI? This is Dunedin-born (2 Apr 1891) Flt Lt Thomas ('Pop') Ness. 'Pop' served with the NZEF 1915-1919. In the Second World War he enlisted in the A&SD branch of the RAFVR as 84452 and served as adjutant at West Zoyland Aug 1940-Jan 1942 ditto with 486 Sqn RNZAF Jan-Dec 1942 ditto with 75 (NZ) Sqn Dec 1942-Nov 1943 ditto with 463 Sqn RAAF Nov 1943-Jan 1944 ditto with 52 Base (Scampton) Jan 1944-Apr 1944 (ditto?) with 49 Sqn Apr 1944-May 1944 'Air Ministry Unit' May 1944- (as welfare officer to the RNZAF until Oct 1945?) From Oct 1945 he was attached to the Missing Research & Enquiry Service (the organisation charged with searching for personnel serving with the RAF and lost-missing during the war) On 1 Nov 1945 he relinquished his RAFVR commission for one in the RNZAF as NZ2499 Discharged from RNZAF in UK on 24 Jun 1947 Errol |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 20, 2012 19:26:54 GMT 12
Great info Errol, thanks for that. So any idea what was on his shoulder then? RAFVR perhaps?
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