Spitfires in German hands

[beagle]

I am just wondering, Dave with all your research will know, did any british pilot defect to germany with a spitfire, or by other means did the germans capture a fully serviciable spitfire or in fact any allied aircraft.

[phil82]

That's easy! Yes the Germans flew many captured allied aircraft, and even had a squadron , KG200 for that specific purpose.

spitfiresite.com/2010/04/foreign-planes-in-the-service-of-the-luftwaffe-book-review.html

[baz62]

Yes they had all sorts of aircraft. The Japanese even had a few captured allied aircraft too including nearly a squadron of P40s (I think they were) still in packing cases when they captured part of the Islands! They put them on air defense duties..........must have been confusing!

[htbrst]

They even went as far as fitting a DB605 engine from a Messerschmitt to one so they could objectively look at the Spitfires performance

www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/spitfire.php

[flyjoe180]

The Germans had a knack for turning a graceful machine into an evil looking thing. I'm not sure if it's the DB601 cowl shape, the bulging 109F/G/K-style spinner, or the evil markings that make it look so, but it that Spitfire looks ugly.

[davidd]

Some of the larger Allied aircraft aircraft captured by the Germans and returned to flying condition included a Stirling, a Liberator, and possibly a B-17. Don't think they had a Mosquito though. The Japanese captured two flyable B-17s (there are photos of them flying in formation over Mt Fuji!), at least one A-20, a few P-40s (don't think they flew a squadron of them though!), a DC-5 (!!) and a few Buffalos and Hurricane IIs, may well have been others too.
David D

[Dave Homewood]

The Japanese actually had LOADS of Allied country aircraft because before the war they bought just about everything that was around, from all the de Havilland types through to DC-3's and Beechcrafts and all that. A lot of them they got the rights to licence build too. Almost every Allied transport and trainer you can think of was in Japanese service during the war.

And when they took Singapore and Hong Kong they also captured the ultimate prize! Several Vildebeests!

As for Allied pilots defecting, I have not heard of any who deliberately did so. I know several US pilots and crews flew into Switzerland (both deliberatley and by accident) and had their aircraft captured. The Spanish also captured numerous Allied aircraft that had to put down on their soil.

I have heard of one US citizen who went to Germany and signed up with the Luftwaffe becoming a Heinkel He111 pilot, and bombing Britain in the Battle of Britain. Later when the US entered the war on the other side he defected back to the Allies taking an aircraft wth him, apparently.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

Jan 3, 2013 8:28:52 GMT 12 flyjoe180 said:

The Germans had a knack for turning a graceful machine into an evil looking thing. I'm not sure if it's the DB601 cowl shape, the bulging 109F/G/K-style spinner, or the evil markings that make it look so, but it that Spitfire looks ugly.

Ah....but it would have been capable of sustained negative Gs without the engine cutting out.

[nuuumannn]

Ah....but it would have been capable of sustained negative Gs without the engine cutting out.

I would say so, the DB601 was fuel injected. The mod to stop that from happening was quite simple and retro fitted to Merlins; "Miss Shilling's Orifice"


At the big museum in the centre of Berlin that was bombed in 1943 had a range of Allied aircraft, including Wellington, Spit, Hurricane (the story of how that got to Germany is interesting) Battle, lots of French stuff, Polish aircraft. The PZL P-11 surviving in Kracow came from there and is the only one surviving.

The aforementioned Hurricane was a victim of a defecting pilot; the guy was a Czech and trained in the RAF; after combat he made his escape to Germany with the aircraft, the British listed the aircraft as 'failed to return', but post war images taken at the museum before its destruction confirmed the serial number.

A model of the museum in Berlin; some of the captured types can be seen, the Spit is at the centre.



The Hurricane can just be seen behind the Do X, with the last surviving Fokker Dr I rumoured to have been one of Richtofen's red ones to its left.

[The Red Baron]

Don't think they had a Mosquito though.

[davidd]

Now THAT is an interesting picture! How did the Germans get their sticky mits on that one? And who the hell stole the propellers? (Or are the engines running? Seems unlikely.)
David D

[Dave Homewood]

That's not at a postwar airshow is it, like when they painted a squadron of Spitfires as Nazis who attacked the Mossies re-enacting the Amien raid at the 1950 Farnborough Airshow, is it?

[ngatimozart]

No, not from the looks as there appear to be some WW2 Luftwaffe officers there.

[baz62]

Wow talk about the classic double take! I went "Is that a Mosquito???"
Dave, the ultimate prize.... Vildebeestes!!.....classic! Pity there are no photos of them painted up in Japanese markings. Did they fly them? (Or were the intimidated by their huge size!)

[nuuumannn]

The Mossie was a B.IV, of which unit I'm not sure and was captured in 1944; it was with KG 200, but I don't think it was flown; what little I know it was listed as being U/S while with them. Maybe one day someone might come up with an image of it in German markings in flight.

Some pictures from Japan that might interest;











The Wellington was a type the Germans had a few of; they did fly them and showed some interest in the geodetic structure; they carried out a number of tests, presumably to verify its rigidity.







Another view of the Spit Vb with DB engine.



These pics come from another forum I visit occasionally.

In early 1940 the Germans captured a Spit PR.1 in France before the Battle of Britain and it appeared in colour photos wearing camouflage being pursued by a Bf 109 in one of the German magazines, Signal or Der Adler or something, with an article about the inferiority of the British product compared to the '109 being highlighted in the text!

[The Red Baron]

Appears there are no pictures of the German Corsair.

[lesterpk]

More German Mossie pics

Attachments:

[lesterpk]

And one more.
OP mentioned it may have belly landed, gear appears to be steel tube rather than original, would also explain missing props.

Attachments:

[chinapilot]

Those 'packing cases' have probably been recycled in Burma....seriously, where do stories like 'a squadron of captured aircraft were used for defence in the islands' come from...

Thread drift but some P-40s were captured in the PI and Java along with the previously mentioned B-17s (Ds & Es). A couple of the P-40s after the surrender were flown from Mindanao to Nicholls Field in Manila by American pilots escorted by Jap fighters.

(Japan licence built around 300 Lodestars and nearly 500 DC-3s pre-war so they were a common sight being used by both the Army and Navy as transports)

[baz62]

Jan 5, 2013 3:39:27 GMT 12 chinapilot said:

Those 'packing cases' have probably been recycled in Burma....seriously, where do stories like 'a squadron of captured aircraft were used for defence in the islands' come from...

I believe I read it in a relatively recent Aeroplane or maybe Flypast magazine. So that's where that "story" came from.

EDIT: Google is my friend (hope its right though!)
www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedby/p40warhawk/captured_p40.htm