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Post by dewobz on Jan 5, 2013 15:02:49 GMT 12
Further to 'Summer Projects', the artwork on this aircraft, almost certainly NZ5229 'E', is apparently No 18 Squadron RNZAF's emblem or squadron badge during WW2. I would love to (try to) reproduce it for my NZ5227 'C' commission build, so if anyone has a better picture or has determined exactly what it looked like please let me know. Many Thanks, Wally. Attachments:
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 5, 2013 15:29:59 GMT 12
This one has puzzled me for some time, I have seen several photos of this emblem and have never been able to see a clear shot that determines exactly what it is. I have seen reference to it being a 'little devil' but I just cannot see that myself.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 5, 2013 15:30:42 GMT 12
It looks more like a hornet to me.
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Post by davidd on Jan 6, 2013 9:12:17 GMT 12
This was much more likely to be a servicing unit badge rather than a squadron one, almost certainly 4 SU at Torokina (Bougainville), mid 1944. Once the SUs got going, squadrons seemed less interested in having unit markings as such. Many of their aircraft had this badge, and one day a reasonably CLEAR photograph of same will be unearthed!
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 6, 2013 11:12:14 GMT 12
I agree. The Donald Duck emblem was a SU marking wasn't it? Whereas the Ghost was strictly No. 23 (Ghost) Squadron and the spider No. 22 (Katipo) Squadron
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Post by dewobz on Nov 29, 2014 16:13:51 GMT 12
I have become the occasional contact point for people who have seen my models or questions on this wonderful forum. None more interesting than this one the other day, from a person who shall remain anonymous. His email to me was entitled "The Real Thing" -  1-20141128_115821_resized by Wally Hicks, on Flickr This is apparently the squadron badge board - or perhaps one of them(?) - brought back from the islands by one of the squadron members, who, incidentally, is not my contactee. After some discussion we agreed it warranted posting on here to prompt comment and discussion. It is evident to me this is not the same badge as painted on the Corsair NZ5229 'E' with which I began this thread. As davidd said, that aircraft's badge is much more likely to be a Servicing Unit badge or emblem. I'm not especially well read about the fighter squadrons but I have never heard 18 Squadron refered to as "Flying Tigers" or similar, has anyone else? |
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Post by davidd on Nov 30, 2014 9:23:08 GMT 12
Wally,
That is certainly a "Bolt from the Blue"! Judging by fact that the bomb seems to be their main reason for existence, I tend to think this dates from their Corsair days, from mid-1944 onwards. One sometimes sees references in squadron paraphenalia (usually written by their Intelligence Officer) alluding to a rather fancy name for their squadron - to me these tend to give the impression that they have been influenced too much by their American allies who seemed to delight in such flamboyance. I have seen something along these lines in 19 Squadron documents, who were styled "The Fighting Nineteenth" by their IO during the unit's first tour with F4Us in mid 1944 on Bougainville. However such frivolity rarely seemed to emerge as full-blown aircraft art, although 25 Squadron (SBD) did have at least one aircraft (that of their CO, S/L Theo de Lange) marked with their semi-official badge.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2014 8:13:55 GMT 12
What a remarkable find! Well done Wally!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2014 10:31:01 GMT 12
Wally, I have just been looking at photos and realised you've absolutely nailed it with this. The mystery symbol on the Corsairs of no. 18 Squadron RNZAF IS the Flying Tiger! This is bloody brilliant. Years of head-scratching at an end. thanks so much!! Here's a photo of one of the Corsairs that wore the symbol, from the late No. 18 Squadron pilot Dave Howlett's collection:  A closer look at that symbol, very blurred but you can see the outline, I always thought it light be a winged creature holding a bomb but it was never clear enough to see for sure.  However look when I use your photo and turn it a bit. Bingo!  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2014 10:33:24 GMT 12
As this is a very important RNZAF wartime historical find, and far bigger than just a modelling discussion, I have moved this thread to the RNZAF WWII section.
It's fantastic that we don't just have the actual wartime squadron symbol but also the colours too. This has really made my day!
I am really starting to wonder now if the Irate Donald Duck symbol as perhaps also a squadron's emblem, rather than a Servicing unit's marking. We have the Flying Tiger (No. 18 Squadron), Katipo Spider (No. 22 "Katipo" Squadron), Ghost (No. 23 "Ghost" Squadron), all with symbols on their Corsairs - so maybe there as an Irate Donald Duck Squadron??
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Post by dewobz on Dec 1, 2014 14:35:14 GMT 12
Dave, I agree with you. Based on your Corsair 'G' photo I can now see that a somewhat modified version of the badge is painted on the aircraft and also on NZ5229 'E', my starting point for this thread.
The background 'cloud' is more circular - though it may still have several 'fluffs' - and the Tiger's legs and wingtips extend beyond it at the upper rear. The Tiger may also be in a more 'heads up' position and have darker or more shaded front legs?
I think it maybe does not include the '18' or "Fighter Squadron"?
Wow!
That clinches it. I absolutely MUST learn how to make my own decals! (Add this to a long list including "Patua te Ra", "The Naughty Nines", "The Wandering Witch" ... the Katipo ...the Joker ...)
More seriously, would RNZAF Museum at Wigram be the best place for the board to go?
Cheers
Wally.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2014 15:23:02 GMT 12
The Warbirds Visitor Centre at Ardmore would probably give it a good home too, since Ardmore was the main Corsair base, and a one time home of No. 18 Squadron.
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Post by alexander2710 on Jul 28, 2015 7:58:01 GMT 12
New on the pages guys, had a good Read. My Pop Graham Spencer Bayley was in 18 Sqn I knew of the emblem for a while but finding the colour/camo scheme they used still evades me, if anyone can help that would be great, I build scale Models and want to build one in memory of my pop. Also I can't seem to find a list of serial numbers of aircraft to find my pops.
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Post by alexander2710 on Jul 28, 2015 7:59:55 GMT 12
Dave, I agree with you. Based on your Corsair 'G' photo I can now see that a somewhat modified version of the badge is painted on the aircraft and also on NZ5229 'E', my starting point for this thread. The background 'cloud' is more circular - though it may still have several 'fluffs' - and the Tiger's legs and wingtips extend beyond it at the upper rear. The Tiger may also be in a more 'heads up' position and have darker or more shaded front legs? I think it maybe does not include the '18' or "Fighter Squadron"? Wow! That clinches it. I absolutely MUST learn how to make my own decals! (Add this to a long list including "Patua te Ra", "The Naughty Nines", "The Wandering Witch" ... the Katipo ...the Joker ...) More seriously, would RNZAF Museum at Wigram be the best place for the board to go? Cheers Wally. you can but blank decal paper online for ink jet printers and make your own I have yet to do so |
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Post by isc on Jul 28, 2015 20:51:35 GMT 12
I would have thought someone would have done an article on aircraft artwork in "Contact" back in 44/45, but it's not in any copies I have, I only have 7 from 44, and 5 from 45. just a thought. isc
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 28, 2015 21:01:00 GMT 12
There is one in a Contact magazine, just basically sketches of nose art done by Maurice Conly, with not a lot of context. They're all well known ones though.
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Post by corsair5517 on Aug 18, 2015 0:13:20 GMT 12
you can but blank decal paper online for ink jet printers and make your own I have yet to do so Yep; waterslide decal paper bought online and a reasonably good printer and away you go; I've done a few for various guitar builds and you've got to remember to seal the decal with acrylic varnish before putting them anywhere near water!! |
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chook
Flying Officer
Posts: 63
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Post by chook on Aug 20, 2015 14:17:50 GMT 12
Alexander2710 - I have the (or an old copy) photo Dewobz (Wally) has posted at the top of this page of Corsair "E'. I have taken a few enlargements of the emblem on my iPhone and it appears with reasonable definition which is lost when I download it to PC - it seems best viewed on the iPhone screen. A techie type told me enlarging the photo won't be too effective because it will always pixelate unless I can get hold of the negative to enlarge from. I'm not sure thats the case but if you pp me your cellphone number I'll txt the iPhone snaps to you. My Father was also in 18 Squadron (thats him in the cockpit of "E") and he knew your pop well. I might be able to dig out some photos of Graham for you. Cheers, Rob
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 20, 2015 15:48:23 GMT 12
Chook, would you mind emailing me that photo you have, in case it reveals anything more? dave_daasnz@hotmail.com
Is your father still alive?
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Post by ggouldsom on Apr 1, 2024 15:50:41 GMT 12
New on the pages guys, had a good Read. My Pop Graham Spencer Bayley was in 18 Sqn I knew of the emblem for a while but finding the colour/camo scheme they used still evades me, if anyone can help that would be great, I build scale Models and want to build one in memory of my pop. Also I can't seem to find a list of serial numbers of aircraft to find my pops. |
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