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Post by phil82 on Apr 1, 2015 23:45:56 GMT 12
If you want parades and running then join the ATC. In 25 years regular service in two Royal Air Forces I only ever did two parades, one of which was a square-bashing passing out, and the other was the Last Battle of Britain parade in Wellington. I also can't recall ever seeing anyone on CMT in the RNZAF [1962-82]
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Post by thelensofhistory on Apr 2, 2015 0:18:59 GMT 12
For all the people who do not wish to tackle me on this topic in the thread I linked to above , please look into the effects of the Sequestration budget cutbacks on the US military. Long held assumptions about the size of the US military are changing.
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Post by baronbeeza on Apr 2, 2015 2:26:44 GMT 12
There will be many here that have been positive vetted or have similar obligations. ie those that know can't and don't talk about such matters. I won't pretend I am up with the play but I knew the system and some of the guys that made it all work. I suspect a few of the readers here would even be still current in intelligence matters and the likes. They will have their own opinions obviously but once again won't be debating tales on a forum. You may be better off buying some of Hager's books, he strikes me as the type of plonker that is prepared to run with the fraction of the story that suits him. Again, some of these guys even believe themselves.....
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Post by tbf25o4 on Apr 4, 2015 12:02:34 GMT 12
When talking of parades. Yes there were regular parades - Squadron, Wing and Base Parades. However at Wigram in the mid 1970s when especially technical manpower was scarce, a 'paper' exercise was conducted by the Senior Engineering Officer on base and presented to the Base Commander on the 'time' taken out by parades. The SEO pointed out that the commitment to provide personnel for Wing and Base parades over a year, mean't that he couldn't meet the operational flying requirements for serviceable aircraft. Following discussions, the regular Wing and Base Parades were dropped! The only continuation of parading occurred with the trainees from GSTs, No2 and No3 TTS which made sense as the trainees did not contribute to the flying side of the base.
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Post by thelensofhistory on Apr 4, 2015 19:03:49 GMT 12
There will be many here that have been positive vetted or have similar obligations. ie those that know can't and don't talk about such matters. I won't pretend I am up with the play but I knew the system and some of the guys that made it all work. I suspect a few of the readers here would even be still current in intelligence matters and the likes. They will have their own opinions obviously but once again won't be debating tales on a forum. You may be better off buying some of Hager's books, he strikes me as the type of plonker that is prepared to run with the fraction of the story that suits him. Again, some of these guys even believe themselves..... What a sad indictment of the Kiwi mentality that demands conformity of everybody's thinking. Information about the cut backs in US military spending is publicly available. So is info about the USN replacing frigates with LCS. If you choose to believe against common sense that you need to have access to classified intel to make any kind of judgments on what the future holds that is your business. For people like me who don't wish to get their coverage of world events from the Kiwi Media , we have to make our own judgments.
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Post by baronbeeza on Apr 4, 2015 20:10:58 GMT 12
You may be missing the point. There are guys here who receive their data from a variety of sources, - intel briefs, top grade mags, Internet forums, other means and then finally the media. Invariably they will form an opinion. We all have them. The difference is that many just can't talk about it. They will be seeing threads like this and they may even have rolling eyes, still no bites. They see similar stuff on a daily basis.
This thread is, or rather was, about CMT. I have had trouble following the drift but it went from using CMT to increase the numbers in the NZ Defence Forces to then conscript and train nurses and then to the Chinese threat and then to gap year schemes and then....
So the answer to combat this perceived threat from the Chinese is to take potential nursing students and conscript them into the forces for a year after high school to give them a taste of discipline. Roger that.
I think our idea of bringing the nurses out to the mess for a Saturday night JOP gave them something of more interest and seemed to be good for the morale as well. Still, as you say, - we all have different ideas. Me, you very rarely see me reading a newspaper or even watching the TV 'news'. I know there are many here that are doing likewise and for similar reasons, - we can see right through the 'reporting'.
I have a secondary interest in these events these days, I have no interest in reading media or magazine articles.
Some will have campaign medals to wear when they choose... there will be guys here that have actually done it. I am not referring to the armchair battles there. Carry On..
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Post by thelensofhistory on Apr 4, 2015 20:40:35 GMT 12
Baronbeeza I get where your coming from , sorry about the mix up.
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Post by phil82 on Apr 4, 2015 23:57:47 GMT 12
[/quote]What a sad indictment of the Kiwi mentality that demands conformity of everybody's thinking. Information about the cut backs in US military spending is publicly available. So is info about the USN replacing frigates with LCS. If you choose to believe against common sense that you need to have access to classified intel to make any kind of judgments on what the future holds that is your business. For people like me who don't wish to get their coverage of world events from the Kiwi Media , we have to make our own judgments. [/quote] Given the tenor of all of your posts to date, it appears unsurprising that your views, based on never having served in an capacity in Defence of New Zealand, should then presume to indict the mentality of those that did? All of the views expressed here are by people who have interpreted fact from fiction: something with which your posts seem to have difficulty! Carry on reading Hagar and Snowden, from which you will learn precisely nothing other than their version of integrity is what once used to be cut into suitably sized squares and hung on a nail inside a toilet! I don't know what it is you're reading: [don't want to know really!] You don't know anything about the conformity of which you so glibly post, and I can tell you that some of the most non-conformist people I ever met were in uniform.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 7, 2015 9:06:10 GMT 12
When talking of parades. Yes there were regular parades - Squadron, Wing and Base Parades. However at Wigram in the mid 1970s when especially technical manpower was scarce, a 'paper' exercise was conducted by the Senior Engineering Officer on base and presented to the Base Commander on the 'time' taken out by parades. The SEO pointed out that the commitment to provide personnel for Wing and Base parades over a year, mean't that he couldn't meet the operational flying requirements for serviceable aircraft. Following discussions, the regular Wing and Base Parades were dropped! The only continuation of parading occurred with the trainees from GSTs, No2 and No3 TTS which made sense as the trainees did not contribute to the flying side of the base. Technical Squadron at Wigram must have not gotten that memo as we paraded every Monday as a Squadron outside Base HQ for a role call. We also got pinged for numerous funeral parades, graduation parades, and the annual Queens Birthday one.
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Post by baronbeeza on Apr 7, 2015 10:40:55 GMT 12
Yes, Tech Sqdn did Monday morning parades during the mid 80's but I am not so sure about earlier. I graduated from initial training at Wigram in the late 70's and we didn't even have a graduation parade. Indeed the best Squadron strength parade was walking about with a couple of guys holding a plank of timber. I must have been in for a year or so before I encountered my first 'real' parade. The kind of thing we did every week as ATC cadets. I can recall doing a ensign hoisting parade one cool winters morning. We left Tech HQ, marched down to the parade ground and didn't even stop, - just a few left wheels and headed back for the dismissal. The whole thing was over in a matter of minutes with the DNCO having done the flag honours before we even got there. Even then we lost time as it took a cup of coffee and a warm up in front of the fire before everyone got back to work again. I knew the parade commander well and nothing was ever said to him about it.
When the F27 guys broke away from Tech Sqdn and became NATS Maint Flight I think they realised the situation and formulated a clever plan. They had a parade on the Monday just like the other Techies, their's was just a line up within the hangar and a quick roll call. Nothing too formal about that one, more just going through the motions but at least they could say they paraded. More Hogan's Heroes than The Hill.
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Post by camtech on Apr 7, 2015 18:11:16 GMT 12
The sneaky NATTS parades were still in vogue when I was NCO i/c '84-'87
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 8, 2015 14:39:51 GMT 12
My post should have said the time frame, 1991-93. Yes the NATTS guys still paraded seperately from us up till that unit's demise in 1992.
I have a vague memory that other squadrons like Admin Squadron, Supply Squadron, etc, may have had parades at the Base HQ Parade Ground for flag raising on other mornings of the week, and Monday was just Tech Sqn's day.
I recall being rent-a-crowd for a few other parades too. I think one was the closure of the Flying Training Wing (PTS and CFS) which had a Beat Retreat, and was held in No. 2 or 3 Hangar due to a rain storm. The sound of the drums in the big concrete hangar was amazing.
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zolteg
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 82
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Post by zolteg on Apr 12, 2015 11:40:43 GMT 12
At NATTS as a student in the mid '80s we'd have the morning tuesday/thursday flag parades every week (from memory) with the OCDTs from CTS and PTS. And cold, miserable morning parades they were in the winter too. Still, occasionally amusing with the sprog officers in charge still learning how to get things right.
But same thing, once posted you might get pinged for a Queens Birthday or charter parade, but you'd have to have been seriously unlucky to get more than one a year.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 12, 2015 12:17:43 GMT 12
Oh yes, I had forgotten the Charter parades. I did one of them in Christchurch, it was actually a memorable experience seeing the whole city stop and people line the streets and clap and cheer as we marched through.
At Ohakea I got stuck on a 100 man Honour Guard parade to welcome the Irish Prime Minister (or was it President?), Mary someone. They flew us down in an Andover to Rongotai, another Andover and a Hercules came from Auckland with more troops, and we spent the morning practicing. We then all bussed to RNZAF Shelly Bay and had lunch (my only visit there when it as a base) and then back to the airport. She arrived, got off the plane and jumped straight in a car and was gone. She never even looked in the general direction of the Guard who'd wasted tens of thousands of taxpayers dollars and thousands of working man-hours for her. That parade really made me a bit angry, a completely senseless waste of time and money.
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Post by phil82 on Apr 12, 2015 13:21:42 GMT 12
Oh yes, I had forgotten the Charter parades. I did one of them in Christchurch, it was actually a memorable experience seeing the whole city stop and people line the streets and clap and cheer as we marched through. At Ohakea I got stuck on a 100 man Honour Guard parade to welcome the Irish Prime Minister (or was it President?), Mary someone . She was President. On my OTC, there were times when we learned about parades as supernumary Officers, and one day I ended up with a flight of Sgts on some management course or another. I'm out front and my mind went blank, but the Sgts, Bless 'em, some of whom I knew of course, spent the rest of the parade whispering instructions!
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Post by camtech on Apr 12, 2015 21:25:12 GMT 12
I know we are drifting from the thread (CMT) but I can remember doing a few Battle of Britain, Charter and Queen's birthday parades in Auckland. can't recall which, but for a number of years, we used to get bussed to Hobby, board one of the harbour ferries, trundle up to the city, wander up Queen Street in some semblance of order, be inspected by the mayor, amble into the Town Hall, listen to someone prattle on, then repeat the exodus. Recall once the ferry got stuck on a sandbank because someone forgot about a simple fact of physics - tides, boat and loading needs some forethought to avoid the shambles. The logistics of moving 300 to 400 people, a band, rifles, and boxed lunches, not to mention time lost in rehearsals and parading kept some people occupied for a fair while.
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Post by rone on Apr 16, 2015 22:39:56 GMT 12
To get back on topic, CMT initial training was 12weeks then 2weeks a year annual camp. In my case the pin was pulled after 1 annual camp then put into Reserve for the next 5years. All in all a great experience, one that the youth of today sorely need.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 23, 2017 13:25:44 GMT 12
I have reread a lot of this thread just now, going back to the original topic of Compulsory Military training in the RNZAF. This re-reading was prompted by my recent watching and really enjoying the 1970's TV series "Get Some In" about a bunch of 18 year old lads forced into the RAF in 1955 for National Service. That comedy series is really excellent, and I am sure it is very close to the truth as much of the basic training they went through I could totally relate to from my own GSTS course in 1989, and other experiences in the Air Force. I posted about that series in the Aviation Films section, and I highly recommend it, the whole series is on Youtube. Ex-Air Force types in particular will, I'm sure, really enjoy it.
I find it interesting that between 1949 and 1961 every male who turned 18 had to register for military training, and by 1958 63,033 had gone through the scheme. In 1961 the age was raised to 20 years old, and a ballot was introduced so reduced numbers were going through. This continued till 1972. I'm sure most of them went into the Army but I wonder what the total number was of young men who went into the RNZAF through the CMT scheme. And I wonder what percentage of them opted to join up for regular service with the RNZAF following their 14 weeks or 3 months training course.
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Post by shorty on Jul 23, 2017 15:37:15 GMT 12
I applied to join the Air Force at the end of 1966 and coincidentely my number was pulled out for the birthday ballot for CMT in the Army so I was going through two medicals at the time. One day I would turn up for the Air Force part and then the following day for the Army one, both being done by the same people, which mystified them. I got the paperwork to join the Army and the Air Force on the same day! I picked Wigram over Waiouru!
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Post by rone on Oct 17, 2017 10:03:28 GMT 12
Apart from one or two forum members who post on here, I am assuming most members are of an age that CMT was something from a different age. I have only noticed references by about two or three members on here. Maybe past history is no longer interesting. There has been plenty of reminiscing of Airforce life, but it appears age has caught up with those who did CMT and their stories are not interesting enough.
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