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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 11, 2014 13:54:40 GMT 12
So you were there at the scene?
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Post by nzjet on Jan 11, 2014 14:20:30 GMT 12
we were all there, with that many vids and photos posted how could we not be... and we can all see what caused the accident!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 11, 2014 14:53:42 GMT 12
Working out the perceived cause of the accident from the videos is one thing. Ridiculing or criticising the police response when it doesn't seem warranted at all is another and is plainly strange. Am I missing something here?
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 11, 2014 15:43:56 GMT 12
The guy was on his knees, in the sand, searching for his keys and phone (possibly). What else would he have in his hands ?
Everyone else was responding, even then the editing cut out whatever happened next. It will be on the original footage though. I am guessing he ran to the car. Maybe some here are too young to remember the Keystone Cops. I was on the phone to another member here comparing notes, we both thought that was the funny part of the clip.
Ok, lets get professional, and critical. Where was the crash truck ? What provisions had been made for a mishap ? Did people not appreciate the risk involved here ? Was a boat positioned down by the cliffs ?
These questions are going to be asked. This is obvious stuff and was certainly part of my training. Someone really needed to have sounded caution here, - you would normally expect that. It would have been discussed at the briefing. It will all be on the various video clips, we have already heard statements that don't tally with the footage.
I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all but others have already asked about the tide, why two POB... this has to be obvious to any aviator here.
Many Policemen have an aviation background, would they have done things differently ?
Some may have been in the vehicle and done a chase up the beach .....
To me it seems the running repairs were carried out in roughly the same location as the aircraft eventually ended up back at. Under those trees Phill spoke of. The difference in beach state between doing the engine work and the takeoff attempt can be easily seen.
As NZ Jet has pointed out, it is all there on the footage.
I was not there. I have not passed judgement nor made any guesses. I have seen some video clips and made informed comment, purely on the content of the footage accessible to all.
I did have a chuckle, from my point of view I thought all involved will be very glad they got off so lightly. Nothing hurt apart from the aircraft and some pride. We can all learn from this, then again we said the same about the Seawind.
BTW Did we see the 'co-pilot' may have been in the left seat ? He appeared to be as they prepared to back-track.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 11, 2014 15:54:55 GMT 12
The guy was on his knees, in the sand, searching for his keys and phone (possibly). What else would he have in his hands ? Sorry, in all the many clips floating around I did not see that detail and did not pick up on this properly from your previous posts. Which clip is it in?
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jan 11, 2014 16:16:17 GMT 12
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 11, 2014 16:39:36 GMT 12
It is in the Stuff one, it may not be on the site for long but I think it is also on one of the YouTube clips. The cop can be seen stumbling and tripping up shortly after the splash in this clip. www.stuff.co.nz/national/9597091/Plane-fails-take-off-on-beach-filled-with-childrenThis was the previous thread about the Seawind accident on Lake Taupo. rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/5281In that there was unfortunately a fatality and the report is very detailed as a result. If, for arguments sake, this Jabiru got airborne and then fell out of the steep turn and went into the sea, would things be viewed that much differently. This questions that are going to be asked will be in a similar vein. It may well be that the causal factors in each are very similar. rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/5281
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 11, 2014 16:50:29 GMT 12
Nope, still never saw the cop thing.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 11, 2014 17:16:07 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 11, 2014 19:44:15 GMT 12
Hmm, ok. The poor chap tripped. Can happen to anyone.
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Post by baz62 on Jan 11, 2014 21:00:22 GMT 12
Is it just me or has the last week or so seen quite a few aviation related mishaps? A lot of people on holiday going flying and having bad luck/bad decision making. What are we up to now 4? 5? Think I'll saty on the ground until next week when fly ANZ/Mount Cook to Hamilton!!
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 12, 2014 14:30:12 GMT 12
As expected the incident is making headlines internationally. The weekend papers will be loving it. Strangely enough I think the exposure may even be good for the country. Those freezing in the Northern climes will be making a mental note of the beach scenes and easy going people. Easy going with cars, boats and even aeroplanes on the scene. It looked desirable to me, you can imagine how everyone suffering with weeks on end of snow will be viewing it. travel.aol.co.uk/2014/01/11/watch-plane-crash-twice-new-zealand-beach-video/The cops antics are included in a few of the videos. Yep, of course it can happen to anyone, - but you wouldn't really want to have a worldwide audience passing comment. Craig Differ · Lenzie Academy What about the police guy at the end falling down the hole . Brilliant Reply · 6 · Like · Follow Post · 10 hours agoThat would probably even add to the family appeal of the videos.... We should be making it clear it is NZ and not Aussie !
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Post by philip on Jan 12, 2014 16:33:04 GMT 12
My family holidayed at that beach for the best part of my childhood and I know it really well. At low tide the sand is hard packed and good enough to launch a boat from anywhere. High tide today was 15:45 so ample time to let it out a bit to give a good clear strip in the evening and plenty long enough. They started from midway and only used half the beach and there are rocks at the end they were going along with the overhanging pohutukawas we used to play on I'd say caa will require some 'splaining Here's a picture of the beach. The red line is where they tried to take off at highish tide (you can see a white tide line) Do do this he had to cross the boat ramp, avoid the trees, house and rocks you can see. If he'd waited till low tide he would have had a huge expanse of hard sand to take off on.
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Post by craig on Jan 12, 2014 21:41:18 GMT 12
Why the need for 2 pilots?
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Post by beagle on Jan 12, 2014 22:28:32 GMT 12
someone had to carry the sandwiches.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 12, 2014 22:36:26 GMT 12
I have seen this before, a chap I knew well went to work and realised his Chieftain flight that morning was going to be very tricky.
He had a pray, and then phoned one of his mates to accompany him as second pilot. The guy questioned why.... the answer, - 'I don't want to die alone'.
His mate still flew with him and the flight must have lasted less than 10 minutes. I went to the funeral the next day.
Airmanship and the thought process takes on many guises. We can't answer the question but the two 'passengers' in the Jabiru will get a chance. It may even come down to who was actually PIC.
I think they may have changed roles. As I mentioned earlier the discussion may even have been recorded, there was no shortage of witnesses. All of what has been suggested here would have been discussed during the decision making process and briefing. The crew would have had reasons for their actions.
The CAA will ensure any report gets full circulation as I am sure they will believe that lessons can be learnt here. The Seawind one was most certainly mentioned at IA lectures.
The CAA have nothing to gain by brushing this incident to one side. They are not vindictive like their Aussie counterparts but they believe very firmly in a safety culture. All the pilots here will appreciate this.
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Post by noooby on Jan 17, 2014 12:40:27 GMT 12
If the owner/pilot isn't CAA certified to repair his aircraft, you can bet that CAA will be looking at some sort of action against him.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 17, 2014 13:35:33 GMT 12
That was one of the findings in the Seawind accident. The Jabiru is a Class 2 microlight will be operated under slightly different rules.
Class 2 microlights require log book entries all the same and the entire flight will come under scrutiny. There may have been some maintenance activity that went on to cause the forced landing, I did hear mention of an engine change.
I believe one of these pilots had been giving maintenance lectures so he would hardly be a novice. The investigation matrix will cover a wide scope, just as a matter of course.
You are correct though, GA aircraft would require a 'Release to Service' certification after maintenance, including pilot performed tasks. We would also have reportable defects and incident reporting to consider although that doesn't necessarily need to be done immediately. This was on a weekend as well.
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nosig
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 95
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Post by nosig on Jan 17, 2014 16:19:33 GMT 12
I'm just glad he didn't get airborne. Could have been so much worse
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Post by Bruce on Jan 17, 2014 17:06:00 GMT 12
If the owner/pilot isn't CAA certified to repair his aircraft, you can bet that CAA will be looking at some sort of action against him. Pilot Maintenance is OK on a microlight - there isnt even a requirement to release it to service afterwards or even really document it. There are however a number of factors in this incident that most certainly should attract attention from CAA and the microlight organisations. Not necessarily for enforcement action, but it highlights some decsion making and attitude shortcomings which hopefully arent widespread in the microlight community, but which I've seen at a number of fly ins and aviation gatherings.
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