otr1
Sergeant
Posts: 14
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Post by otr1 on Apr 20, 2015 7:25:35 GMT 12
Just for the record, the order for RAAF C-17 assets seven and eight were confirmed by the PM at RAAF Amberley the other day.
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Hoffy
Pilot Officer
Posts: 48
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Post by Hoffy on Feb 23, 2016 20:30:16 GMT 12
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Post by pjw4118 on Feb 26, 2016 12:42:26 GMT 12
I see that our Defence Minister commented that for a country surrounded by water we seem to have an Army centric defence policy , why is this ?
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 26, 2016 13:11:15 GMT 12
Because our actual defence relies on relationships (and what we contribute to them), and not the limited force we can provide for direct defence.
For instance, our ability to provide (just) a deployed battalion in Timor for how ever many years was of benefit to our relationships with Australia and the UN. A bunch of e.g. coastal defence missile boats wouldn't be as well appreciated.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 26, 2016 13:50:15 GMT 12
I see that our Defence Minister commented that for a country surrounded by water we seem to have an Army centric defence policy , why is this ? That is HC & Co's legacy for NZ. Destroy our maritime defence capability in favour of the Army. Remember if she had gotten her way in 2001/2002 we wouldn't have P-3s or Frigates now either. Errol - I'm sure that privately the Australians have a very dim view of our very weak Defence capability and spending, despite the smiles and handshakes of the politicians in public. And its not just about us having a combat capability. Having just a training capability, as in the squadron of A-4s based in Nowra doing fleet support to the ADF gained NZ huge cudos and respect. It's about pulling our weight in a meaningful way. Our current forces are doing their best with what they have, but what they have isn't enough.
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 26, 2016 14:17:38 GMT 12
I agree Don, but the question was about the mix, not the level, of spending. If we were just wanting to maximize the direct defence of our shores with the current spend, the mix of forces would be different.
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Post by saratoga on Feb 26, 2016 16:01:30 GMT 12
I see that our Defence Minister commented that for a country surrounded by water we seem to have an Army centric defence policy , why is this ? Well, he's the Defence Minister ,why doesn't he do something about it!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 26, 2016 16:24:08 GMT 12
Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee not happy with advice from NZDF officialsJO MOIR Last updated 12:41, February 11 2016 Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee wasn't satisfied with the advice being given by officials at the New Zealand Defence Force.Top officials at the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) have been given barely a pass mark for their advice by Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee. Brownlee, who took over the portfolio from Jonathan Coleman, scored the NZDF only 50 per cent for their policy advice service and commented he required "more clarity and positioning of the big picture". The performance target for the advice is 90 per cent. The scorecard, which is part of the NZDF annual report, was raised by Labour defence spokesman Phil Goff at select committee on Thursday morning. Following the meeting, Vice Chief of Defence Kevin Short said he wasn't worried about the performance because things had improved and the NZDF had a "good working relationship" with Brownlee. "He's a reasonable man, he rates hard, but that's for us to adapt and meet his needs." "When we had a change of Minister of Defence, we have to change the way we deal with an individual. When we were dealing with Minister Brownlee we were just dealing with him as we had before, but it was not his style and we had to adapt to that." "He wanted documents to be precise and accurate and he wanted more timely responses," Short said. The difference between providing advice through a power point or on an A3 piece of paper were examples given by Short of where they'd gone wrong. "It was a case of, he would tell us, and we were misinterpreting." "I agree it wasn't a good rating and we didn't deserve to get a good rating," he said. But Goff said it was unacceptable that Brownlee had effectively given the NZDF a vote of no confidence. "I've got to say, I have every confidence in our defence force and no confidence in our minister," Goff said following the meeting. "I think (Brownlee) didn't want the portfolio, he hasn't engaged with them, he doesn't identify with them. That makes him, I think, a poor choice for the portfolio." - Stuff
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 26, 2016 16:31:39 GMT 12
Hmmm
How dare a Minister expect such things from his advisers? What was he thinking? Surely the advisers are there to provide fudged information with lots of grey areas, and take their time about preparing it - this is the message I get from Goff's reaction anyway...
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 26, 2016 19:03:10 GMT 12
Brownlee is just another lame duck Defence Minister, sadly the latest in a very long line of them. He is just as incompetent in his role as the Christchurch Earthquake Recovery Minister. How he and his equally incompetent EQC CEO have survived is totally beyond me.
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Post by isc on Feb 26, 2016 19:48:44 GMT 12
I would imagine (probably wrongly), that the govt does it's best to have advisors who tell them what they want to hear, rather than what they need to hear. isc certain gentleman should go back to teaching woodwork, we need more tech teachers. perhaps more cake mix!
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Post by thelensofhistory on Feb 26, 2016 20:26:07 GMT 12
Brownlee is just another lame duck Defence Minister, sadly the latest in a very long line of them. He is just as incompetent in his role as the Christchurch Earthquake Recovery Minister. How he and his equally incompetent EQC CEO have survived is totally beyond me. IMO the answer is like asking a car mechanic to do the wiring on a new house. Brownlee has been a better mechanic (His role in recovery from the Canterbury Quakes) than many people think. But the deliberate choice to put him in charge of Wiring a new home (Minster of Defence) is appalling. Make no mistake all the chickens will come home to roost in due time.
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Post by thelensofhistory on Feb 26, 2016 20:37:43 GMT 12
Hmmm How dare a Minister expect such things from his advisers? What was he thinking? Surely the advisers are there to provide fudged information with lots of grey areas, and take their time about preparing it - this is the message I get from Goff's reaction anyway... And it what I took from Brownlee stance as well. I think we are disturbingly at a point where the cross party consensus is to have the senior NZDF commanders purely as administrators. This allows the government to appoint lackeys who will the implement the policy ideas they get from lunatic asylums. I don't mean any disrespect to those who have or a currently serving in the NZDF. I just find it increasingly difficult to comprehend the merit of New Zealand's defence posture.
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Post by madmac on Feb 26, 2016 21:22:57 GMT 12
It seems to be a New Zealand wide problem, You shall not observe that the emperor has no clothes!!!
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Feb 27, 2016 16:57:40 GMT 12
So... the Australian Defence white paper has just been delivered this week & WOW, some major upgrade and procurements coming in the next 10 years. Aviation5 x G550 Elint aircraft (2 x already on order) 15 x P-8 (8 x confirmed, original order was 4 confirmed with 8 options , then to 8 confirmed now 7 more after that for the 15) MH-6 Little Birds for Spec ops Sqn, number not disclosed. A combat SAR Helo (Number and Type not disclosed) 2 x more KC-30 tankers bringing the total to 9 2 x more C-17 (from were I don't know for total of 10) Replacement of Tiger Helicopters. Yay!! (watch for AH-64E or AH-1Z order!!) LandNew portable SAM system New Rifle and pistol Upgrade to M1 Abrams fleet New tracked armoured vehicle to replace ASLAV and M-113 New armour protected Engineering vehicles (Dozers, loaders, Excavators , trucks etc) Navy9 new Frigates 15 offshore patrol vessels continual upgrades to Adelaide class LHD to be compatible with US forces for joint ops in Pacific region upgrade to HMAS Choules heavy landing ship. 12 Submarines to replace the 6 Collins class ( Modified Japanese Soryu class favourite for role) Plus increases to Defence manning levels in front line units and upgrades/Improved civilian support of ADF Equip. This amount of upgrades puts Australia up with only a couple of countries in the world for troop lift , maritime ops and Spec aviation with Growlers, F-35,E-7, G-550 Elint and Tanker fleet, interesting times ahead. Best I keep me tax payments up
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Feb 27, 2016 17:03:53 GMT 12
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Post by Calum on Feb 29, 2016 13:34:18 GMT 12
So... the Australian Defence white paper has just been delivered this week & WOW, some major upgrade and procurements coming in the next 10 years. MH-6 Little Birds for Spec ops Sqn, number not disclosed. No airframe was mentioned and IIRC timeframe is 2020-2025 so who really knows what they'll get. It also depends what the actaul requirements are. MH-6's are pretty niche. No real light lift capability Replacement of Tiger Helicopters. Yay!! (watch for AH-64E or AH-1Z order!!) Again timeframe is mid 2020's so I doubt AH-1Z will be still in production by then. Even AH-64E will likely be finished. So if the timeframe si accurate it brings things like S-97 or even V-280 as options Sadly for us taxpayers (and AAVN) Tiger is looking like a 2 billion waste of money Best I keep me tax payments up best you do. If 70% of this actuallys get up, noting the multiple changes of government due in the next 10 years, I'd be happy (and surprised). The white paper looks like the kids have been let loose in the lolly shop, the ADF seem to have got everything they wanted and more - the only thing I didn't see, that I though I might was a UH-60M requirement for Special forces support. Perhaps the light helo capability was a carrot for the Special Forces learning to like MRH-90
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 29, 2016 18:45:16 GMT 12
Perhaps the RAAF are getting our two C-17s!
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Post by Calum on Mar 1, 2016 13:48:35 GMT 12
Well there's only 1 white tail left so I doubt it. I'd expect the heavy lift might be more KC-30's.
Whatever why you look at it, if even 50% of the white paper comes off in the next 10-15 years the ADF will be the best equipped small military in the world. And even better equipped than most larger countries (i.e virtually all of Europe)
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Post by saratoga on Mar 1, 2016 16:52:46 GMT 12
I'd suggest they might need to be,in 10-15 years most of Europe may well be knocking on their door,or sneaking through the windows!
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