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Post by davidd on Oct 20, 2014 11:12:07 GMT 12
Nice additional photos there Dave - they show the aerial set-up quite well. Removal of aerials (and internal radar equipment) from RNZAF Hudsons and B-34 was not uncommon, as the ASV Mk. II was not exactly the latest kit available - nor was it entirely reliable, but then not a lot of the radar equipment available at that time was. Some radar equipment fitted to B-34s was removed for instructional purposes once sufficient PV-1s (with microwave radar equipment) were in service. ASV Mk. II (American manufactured for US Navy as ASE) was also the standard search equiment for practically all of our PBY-5s and PB2B-1 Catalinas (apart from about the last six of the Canadian-built boats which had AN/APS-3, which was merely an improvement of the ASD fitted to our PV-1s). There are some nice clear b&w photos of the B-34 radar set-up in the RNZAF "supply" file for this type, including close-ups of the Yagis as well as the side-ways looking arrays, originally sent to NZ by the aforementioned Wing Commander Gibb as alluded to in my earlier post. David D
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Post by baz62 on Oct 20, 2014 11:50:33 GMT 12
Was there any particular reason NZ4600 was chosen to be grounded as an instructional airframe? Damaged? or just chosen at random?
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Post by camtech on Oct 20, 2014 12:20:17 GMT 12
I wasn't aware NZ4600 was allocated for instructional use. My records show her as being sold as scrap from Woodbourne, in November 1947, to Mr Russ.
NZ4592 and 93 were also sold at the same time, to Mr Edwards.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 20, 2014 16:53:02 GMT 12
I don't know why it doesn't seem to have had an INST number. I cannot recall where I first heard it was one of the TTS airframes for instructing on, but I am sure I have heard/read it a few times. Maybe in NZ Wings? or the old MOTAT book?
It was at Nelson, and there were no Ventura units based at Nelson, ever. No. 2 Squadron moved to Ohakea to convert to the type.
It was probably trucked to Woodbourne when the TTS moved to Hobsonville when the war ended?
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Post by davidd on Oct 24, 2014 11:21:23 GMT 12
I tend to agree with Dave H - although NZ4600 never received an "INST" number, it would seem to have been kept at Nelson for instructional purposes only, as by this time the Ventura was one of our "key" types, and was till in very short supply, so it would be only logical to transfer one of the disgraced B-34s for this lowly duty rather then the "precious" PV-1s with their microwave radar. It is likely that NZ4600 was simply used to get tradesman familiar with the general type, and how it differed from the more familiar Hudson. Carrying out (unnecessary) specimen skin repairs or completely dismantling the bomb-bay doors or the complex flap actuating system just to see how they were put together would not be permitted, for example, nor would the removal of any inventory equipment without the express permission of Air Department be permitted as it would impair the quick return of the aircraft to full service. So far as we know NZ4600 was not damaged in any way when delivered to Nelson, and it is highly likely that Air Department would have put conditions on its employment at Nelson along the lines of, "all care to be taken that the airworthiness of this aircraft not be compromised as it may later be required for operational duties". Certainly many other largely complete and almost airworthy aircraft were loaned to Technical Training Schools under such restraints, including two brand-new Corsairs to Nelson in mid-1944 (NZ5501 and 5507), although both were much later given INST numbers. Likewise there were two Hudsons at Nelson under similar circumstances which also later got INST numbers. David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 24, 2014 12:17:48 GMT 12
I would assume that the Ventura would have been in fully functioning condition so the Fitters and Riggers and Electricians and Instrument Repairers and other types training at the TTS could not only observe the general set up but also some of them would have been trained in the starting and running of the engines and al its settings, and I'd guess also in taxiing of the type, all jobs that they'd be required to do on an Servicing Unit when fully trained up. Would you agree with this David? Can anyone confirm if there was a second B-34 Ventura also with the TTS? Or is the second aircraft in the RNZAF Station Nelson band photo actually Hudson? I am not sure. Here's a newer copy I just snapped from the January 1945 Contact magazine using the digital camera.
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Post by Calum on Oct 24, 2014 13:32:58 GMT 12
Great Photos Dave
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Post by davidd on Oct 24, 2014 13:55:33 GMT 12
Other aircraft behind the B-34 is certainly a Hudson, note tapered HS propellers and Hudson-type undercarriage with fairing down wheelstrut and no u/c doors. All Ventura models had paddle-blade props. Although starting up a Ventura might have been undertaken by members of groundstaff trained in the procedures, they were not normally permitted to taxi aircraft as this was a job usually carried out by rated (on type) pilots. One taxiing job carried out be a member of groundstaff in Fiji in Decmber 1943 (who had received instruction from a pilot on this duty in case a qualified pilot was NOT available) went horribly wrong when a wind sprang up and the aircraft got out of control and ended up in a hurricaane ditch - and that was the end of DH 86 NZ553 in Fiji - just about every major component was wrenched, broken or twisted out of shape. Further instructions were issued that NO member of groundstaff was to attempt to taxi an aircraft at the field under any circumstances. NZ553 was about to be ferried back to New Zealand, but instead the remains made the trip by sea. Mind you, a large and comparatively lightly loaded aircraft such as the DH 86 would have been a handful for even a qualified pilot under these circumstances in a strong crosswind on runways bounded by deep hurricane drains. Postwar, selected members of groundstaff (usually 'the steady, reliable type') were also qualified to taxi certain types of aircraft, but again they normally were expected to attempt to obtain the services of a qualified pilot, particularly if conditions were difficult, as things could so easily go awry in gusty conditions. David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 24, 2014 14:50:48 GMT 12
Ah you're so right about that being a Hudson. Thanks for the clarification.
Also thanks for the info regarding the taxiing. That makes sense. I recall whist I was based at Wigram some 2TTS trainees taxiing an INST Devon for some reason managed to taxi into an Andover. Or was it the Andover taxiied into a Devon?
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Post by davidd on Oct 25, 2014 17:02:35 GMT 12
Thought it worth pointing out that there were THREE B-34s allocated to the TTS at Nelson (NZ4592, 4593, 4600), and one to Levin (NZ4587), apparently all for various instructional purposes. Levin was by this time home of the Armament School (among other units). Also NZ4596 was used as an instructional aircraft by the Electrical & Wireless School at Wigram from January 1944 onwards. Likely that the other four aircraft mentioned were allocated for instructional puposes in about April 1944, after the general withdrawal of all those then in use. In 1946 19 B-34s were offered for sale from Rukuhia, and three from Nelson. David D
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Post by camtech on Oct 25, 2014 19:08:16 GMT 12
I wasn't aware NZ4600 was allocated for instructional use. My records show her as being sold as scrap from Woodbourne, in November 1947, to Mr Russ. NZ4592 and 93 were also sold at the same time, to Mr Edwards. Correction to above: TENDER 1535 (Closed 20 October 1947): Ventura Bombers, 3 only at Nelson. NZ Weekly News 1O October 1947 Also the Wigram aircraft NZ4596 was reduced to spares and produce after the war. All other B-34s were sold at Rukuhia to Larsen in 1948, including the Levin aircraft.
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Post by dewobz on Nov 16, 2014 13:23:35 GMT 12
Hi All I really like that this thread has expanded to become so much more and so very informative. I just wanted to mention that this build, B-34 Ventura NZ4602 OP-O, won the "People's Choice" award at Armistice in Cambridge, which I consider a great honour. Thanks to all who voted for it. Regards, Wally.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 16, 2014 16:44:45 GMT 12
Well done Wally! Yes this thread was becoming such a good discussion of our B-34 Venturas rather than the model, I was almost thinking it needs to be on the WW2 RNZAF section.
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Post by davidd on Nov 17, 2014 9:49:58 GMT 12
Congratulations Wally! Well done with the B-34. And you must tell me about that Kauri tobacco tin (sorry of this has previously been explained by you) - remember them well from my childhood, despite fact that neither parent smoked. Tobacco (or cigarette) tins always had "second" lives - I think I have my own "Kauri" tin around here somewhere. David D
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Post by dewobz on Nov 19, 2014 9:46:06 GMT 12
Hi David, the Kauri tin is a small sculpture in Kauri wood & acrylic paint, scaled up to 2.45:1, which I made during my Certificate of Applied Arts year at NorthTec Rawene in 2008 (as a mature student). Very commonly found in the shed as containers for screws, washers, nuts and bolts as I recall - my Grandpa had dozens of them - and purchased by a local woman as a reminder of her father for this very same reason.
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