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Fury
Oct 24, 2014 18:55:49 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 24, 2014 18:55:49 GMT 12
I went to see "Fury" yesterday. Wow!! Utterly wow!! One of the most intense, incredible films I have seen. It is amazing. Very graphic, lots of raw language and incredibly realistic based on what I have read and heard from veterans. The special effects, make up and acting all incredible. Brad Pitt is fantastic, so is Logan Lerman, the whole cast is. I completely recommend this film to everyone! WARNING - SPOILERS BELOW!!
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Fury
Oct 24, 2014 20:35:50 GMT 12
Post by phil82 on Oct 24, 2014 20:35:50 GMT 12
Yes, produced and directed by the guy who did U517, the ficticious tale of how the US Navy captured a German U-boat complete with Enigma codes, all complete bullshit of course.It was the Royal Navy which did that and the US Navy wasn't within a thousand miles.The fictitious plot attracted substantial criticism since, in reality, it was British personnel from HMS Bulldog who first captured a naval Enigma machine (from U-110 in the North Atlantic in May 1941), months before the United States had even entered the war. However, moving right along,there are, indeed some spectacular visual scenes and sounds in"Fury", but the final scenes are pure Hollywood comedy. A single, disabled American tank taking on 300 highly experienced SS infantry and winning? German infantry at that stage of the war were the best in the world yet this film treats them as absolute dunderheads? Sorry, but they weren't that dumb, and a disabled tank wouldn't have ended in 300 dead Germans! Pure cinematic American licence!
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Fury
Oct 24, 2014 20:54:10 GMT 12
Post by planecrazy on Oct 24, 2014 20:54:10 GMT 12
While I haven't seen the film I know it was an excepted fact that it took around 8 Shermans to take out 1 Tiger tank. There are many stories of Sherman tanks rounds bouncing off Tiger tanks at 50 yards. A Tiger could take out a Sherman at 2000 yards! Looking forward to catching this film nothing like a bit of old fashion Hollywood fiction getting in the way of the facts, bring it on!
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Fury
Oct 24, 2014 22:44:23 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 24, 2014 22:44:23 GMT 12
Well done Colin, you just ruined the movie for everyone else.
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Fury
Oct 24, 2014 22:48:24 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 24, 2014 22:48:24 GMT 12
And I would hardly call the German Infantry the best in the world in April 1945, not by a long chalk.
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Fury
Oct 24, 2014 23:12:20 GMT 12
Post by phil82 on Oct 24, 2014 23:12:20 GMT 12
People can judge for themselves if they wish to go and see a bit of Hollywood whimsy Dave.That's all it is in MY opinion.
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 4:27:46 GMT 12
Post by phil82 on Oct 25, 2014 4:27:46 GMT 12
And I would hardly call the German Infantry the best in the world in April 1945, not by a long chalk. Max Hastings, noted British military historian , who knows a thing or two about such matters: "In reality, Hitler’s legions were the greatest fighting soldiers the world has ever seen, albeit in a ghastly cause.Americans were often the naïve warriors, who sauntered down French and German roads as if they owned them, to be punished for their folly by a stream of Spandau fire.The Germans, in contrast, managed brilliantly their defence of their homeland against overwhelming odds. Sorry, Brad Pitt: from beginning to end of the war they inflicted far higher proportionate casualties on their enemies than they suffered.' I doubt anyone would choose not to go to see this film on the basis of your opinion of it anymore than they would mine!
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 8:47:36 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 25, 2014 8:47:36 GMT 12
Fine if people want to judge for themselves let them see it first - why give the whole plot line away before they get to see it? That's why I went to see it on the opening day because I hate it when people feel they have to tell everyone else what happens before they have a chance to see a film. It's bloody annoying and obnoxious when people do that in MY opinion. If the Germans were such a great infantry force I have to wonder why they were continually being beaten in the field from 1943 and especially 1944 by the British and Empire troops, the Americans, the Russians, the Yugoslavs, and others all the way through to the end. By April 1945 they were a shadow of their former self as an Army, made up of tired veterans, old men and kids pressed in to make up the numbers, and even with the best tanks and anti-tank weapons on the field they were unable to hold back the Allied advance from all sides. Nope, definitely not the best in the world in April 1945 in MY opinion. I don't agree with Hastings' opinion.
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 8:51:49 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 25, 2014 8:51:49 GMT 12
Also I think U-571 is an excellent film. It's a great piece of entertainment, which is all it was meant to be.
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 9:55:26 GMT 12
Post by suthg on Oct 25, 2014 9:55:26 GMT 12
I think they were perhaps made less effective by the lack of adequate supply lines - support. Without that, they become vulnerable - lack of total support poor food supplies, ammunition, ability to retreat from the field for ten days for recuperation, field ambulance support etc. They possibly were better trained and had some good management and equipment, but these can be negated eg by Typhoon and Tempest (and others) ground attacks cutting off their supply lines both road and rail. Just a thought... If I get a chance, I will go see the film.
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 10:18:35 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 25, 2014 10:18:35 GMT 12
They still lost.
I think that by 1944 the British Eighth Army which was fighting in Italy, and was made up of British, New Zealand, Canadian, Polish, Greek and Indian troops, was far superior to the Germans they were fighting, in tactics and in achievements. They had far better artillery and air cover than the Germans too.After Cassino they and the US Fifth Army (US, British, Italian and French divisions)worked together and basically used the German's own Blitzkreig tactics the Eighth Army had been as formidable alone in North Africa in 1943 too. The Germans had only three options when the Eighth Army approached, retreat, be captured or die of course. No-one will convince me the German infantry was better than the Eighth Army after mid-1943, it's simply not true. Had the Eighth Army been moved into Normandy the war would probably have been shortened but instead mostly less experienced forces went ashore there.
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 11:11:46 GMT 12
Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Oct 25, 2014 11:11:46 GMT 12
So did the Americans in Vietnam.
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 11:15:43 GMT 12
Post by phil82 on Oct 25, 2014 11:15:43 GMT 12
Max Hastings has has published twenty-three books, among the most recent of which are ALL HELL LET LOOSE (2011); DID YOU REALLY SHOOT THE TELEVISION ?: A Family Fable (2010); FINEST YEARS: Churchill As Warlord 1940-45 (2009); ARMAGEDDON: The Battle for Germany 1944-45 (2004) and NEMESIS: The Battle For Japan 1944-45 (2007). Armageddon in particular covers the period in question, and has won awards, as have many of his books, because of painstaking research. In other words, he tends to know a bit more about the topic than say, someone who hasn't read it. If "Fury" was a magazine, it would be found in the "comics" section along with "Captain America,and Superman saves Earth".
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 14:44:28 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 25, 2014 14:44:28 GMT 12
Whatever.
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 19:27:56 GMT 12
Post by 11SQNLDR on Oct 25, 2014 19:27:56 GMT 12
It's always sad when some folk confuse Hollywood entertainment (movies) for documentaries. Nothing annoys me more than some geek talking loudly in a theatre to his mates (intentionally so everyone around him can hear how "knowledgeable" he is) about some inaccuracy or another. Jaffas make great ammo lol I go to the movies to be entertained, if I want to be informed I'll check out the History Channel Having said all that I have still not seen 'Red Tails' as the story line & CGI looked totally naff in my view. Going tonight to see Fury with my oldest lad, been looking forward to this one for ages. Great that Brad took along the veteran who assisted with accuracy to the London premiere of Fury too: www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2799330/newlywed-brad-pitt-leaves-wife-angelina-jolie-home-brings-wwii-hero-peter-comfort-91-lff-gala-premiere-fury.html
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 19:36:01 GMT 12
Post by 11SQNLDR on Oct 25, 2014 19:36:01 GMT 12
While I haven't seen the film I know it was an excepted fact that it took around 8 Shermans to take out 1 Tiger tank. There are many stories of Sherman tanks rounds bouncing off Tiger tanks at 50 yards. A Tiger could take out a Sherman at 2000 yards! Looking forward to catching this film nothing like a bit of old fashion Hollywood fiction getting in the way of the facts, bring it on! I have not yet seen the movie either but you should read up on the Sherman Firefly, the rounds of its 17 pounder were more than capable of knocking out a Tiger or Panther from what I've been reading And from the piccies I've seen "Fury" looks like a Firefly?
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 21:13:54 GMT 12
Post by John L on Oct 25, 2014 21:13:54 GMT 12
It's a typical Hollywood movie (the US beats the Germans/Japanese/Iraquis, whoever), but I beleive the attention to detail is meant to be first rate. They even managed to get a genuine running Tiger (from the Bovington? tank museum) for (careful) use in the movie. The story may be fanciful, but they did try to nullify the comments of all the nit pickers (like me) out there.
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Fury
Oct 25, 2014 22:29:29 GMT 12
Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Oct 25, 2014 22:29:29 GMT 12
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Oct 26, 2014 1:34:41 GMT 12
Just back from seeing it on the big Imax screen, what a darn good movie - best I've seen in a fair while. Before the 'anti American' hype takes over the thread I suggest those throwing stones go & see it for themselves. I'm no fan of OTT BS but this movie is in a class of its own in my view. I cannot think of another film that portrays a tankers story. The attention to detail is fantastic, the hard to impress teenager gave it 5 out of 5 too
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Fury
Oct 26, 2014 9:40:15 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 26, 2014 9:40:15 GMT 12
Exactly, you HAVE to see it to realise it's not a pile of disappointing Hollywood bullshit like Pearl Harbor, Red Tails or Monuments Men.
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