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Post by isc on Dec 15, 2014 20:57:18 GMT 12
The C-130J seems to still be in production(only 3 this year). A wee bit of info (compairing the C-130J with the C-130 H and older), the range is up 40%, max speed up 21%, take of role reduced by 41%, and the crew is cut to 2 pilots and 1 loadmaster, there is no navigator or flight engineer. It uses the same RR AE 2100 engines as the C-27. RAAF got 12 C-130J's, and turned down another 2 when the ordered the C-27. isc
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Post by phil82 on Dec 16, 2014 17:42:27 GMT 12
Treasury has announced a half billion deficit for next year, which means more belt-tightning before a surplus is achieved, which I predict will remarkably occur just before the next election. We also borrow overseas, quite a bit in fact,all governments do, and while I can't be arsed to look it up, I think you will find a large percentage of our GDP goes toward retiring that debt. So my point is, where is the money coming from to pay for all these new aircraft?
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Post by beagle on Dec 16, 2014 19:24:22 GMT 12
pretty sure I have read somewhere that there is a special fund for projects like this that get certain amounts each year. Some will say it is called "thin air" but am sure I have seen it somewhere. Maybe we need to have someone like Des Ashton to come on here and explain a few things.
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Post by atea on Dec 17, 2014 1:37:23 GMT 12
Have they spent all the asset sales cash yet? I'm not sure that they have so prehaps some might come from there. I would also think that there would be contingenties present in the government accounts for the replacentment of the Hercules as this is scheduled to occur in the near future. These are very interesting developments and the puchase of C-17's would present a large leap forward for the RNZAF. It will certainly be interesting to see what the RNZAF fleet looks like in a decade or so time.
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 17, 2014 9:42:22 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 17, 2014 12:16:13 GMT 12
They'll raise the necessary cash through the Christmas speeding tickets and booze buses.
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Post by ZacYates on Dec 17, 2014 15:48:01 GMT 12
...so don't complain if you get "caught"! I was fascinated to hear this possible acquisition mentioned on Radio New Zealand - that made me think it was legit!
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Post by isc on Dec 17, 2014 20:58:20 GMT 12
The C-130's were due for replacement in 2018, but with the LEP, there life is extended to 2025. By that time the two oldest aircraft will be sixty years old, and the other three will be fifty seven. isc
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 18, 2014 10:32:09 GMT 12
Has anyone found an actual press release from the Government or NZDF on this? We seem to just have a couple of sound bites. NZ First have issued one, but it is hard to evaluate without knowing what exactly they are responding to (or if they are responding to something that hasn't been said). www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1412/S00191/c17-fantasy-not-for-new-zealand.htmRelated questions: If a couple of C-17s were available for Ops from say 2016, would the reduced hours of use of the C-130s mean it would be practical/economical to operate them longer? The obvious thing to do if C-17s are acquired is to supplement with C-27s/C-295s. Any thoughts on which would be a better match?
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 18, 2014 12:21:31 GMT 12
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Post by atea on Dec 18, 2014 12:34:21 GMT 12
The article by Ron Mark seems to me to be designed to stand out and create attention. Firstly we do not know the cost and that is why the Government is asking for this. I also think he misses what I see as the probable thinking of the government that it would not be a replacement of the Hercules rather an adding of capacity to the current situation. With the Hercules to be replaced by something like C-27s or C-295s later. We also don't know what political pressures are being applied from Australia and the United States. We seem to want to play with the Military 'big boys' again so I guess there is an expectation on their part that we put some extra money into defense and are able to deploy forces readily and improved airfift capacity seems to me to be a necessary part of this.
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Post by beagle on Dec 18, 2014 16:25:23 GMT 12
Just read Ron Marks blurb. Did they not have anyone else for their defence policy
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Post by sqwark2k on Dec 18, 2014 17:28:16 GMT 12
This is what I said should have happened when the ACF was disbanded. We should've boosted the AirLift capability, base a Sqn in Australia to enhance inter-operability, and they could've sent a Hawk or F18 OCU to Ohakea, where RNZAF pilots would have the opportunity to serve in the RAAF units.
I find it hard to believe, that the RAAF is so short of space in Australia, they want to base their overflow in NZ.
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Post by beagle on Dec 18, 2014 17:51:53 GMT 12
With the C27's going there eventually, it will be pretty full flightline. I haven't been there for 20 years, things must have changed a bit.
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Post by beagle on Dec 18, 2014 17:55:36 GMT 12
Has anyone found an actual press release from the Government or NZDF on this? We seem to just have a couple of sound bites. Related questions: If a couple of C-17s were available for Ops from say 2016, would the reduced hours of use of the C-130s mean it would be practical/economical to operate them longer? The obvious thing to do if C-17s are acquired is to supplement with C-27s/C-295s. Any thoughts on which would be a better match? C27. has a ramp.
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Post by lesterpk on Dec 18, 2014 17:59:10 GMT 12
So does the C-295
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Dec 21, 2014 12:53:00 GMT 12
There's an interesting article about this topic in today's Sunday-Star Times, but it doesn't appear to be on the STUFF website.
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Post by beagle on Dec 22, 2014 18:20:32 GMT 12
australianaviation.com.au/2014/12/reports-nz-considering-c-17-acquisition/Media reports in New Zealand have indicted the NZ Defence Force may be considering acquiring between two and four C-17s to replace its C-130H Hercules and Boeing 757 transports in service. First reported with little accompanying detail on Auckland’s Radio ZB on December 13, the story has spread across social media in the past week, particularly after a December 16 article in Flightglobal which stated there was an order pending for two of the 10 ‘white tail’ C-17s Boeing is building from an “undisclosed customer”. Australia requested four of the white tails in a November 12 US Defense Security Cooperation Acquisition (DSCA) notification, while Canada has confirmed it is seeking one additional C-17 (dubbed CC-177 in RCAF service) to take its fleet to five. Boeing is closing the C-17 production line in 2015 and has built the white tail aircraft, so-called as they were built without an order, in anticipation of being able to sell them to new and existing customers. Other potential customers reportedly included Algeria, India (which already has 10 C-17s in service or on order), the UK, and interest from current and new Middle Eastern C-17 operators such as Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE. New Zealand identified a requirement to replace its C-130Hs and 757s in its latest Defence Capability Plan released in June in which it said the “project will consider all options to maintain the current range of capabilities including strategic and tactical transport of people and cargo, airdrop, low level and high level missions, aero-medical evacuation, and backup search and rescue capabilities.” Until recently it was thought the Airbus A400M was a potential front-runner to replace the C-130Hs, but anecdotal reports indicate there is still some concern in NZ over that aircraft’s relative immaturity and smaller customer base compared to the proven C-17. While there has been no formal acknowledgement of the interest from NZ defence officials, the proposal has seen in principle support from NZ Labor opposition leader Phil Goff, but has been criticised by the minor New Zealand First Party. In a December 15 statement, New Zealand First defence spokesman Ron Mark said his party was “stunned” at what he described as the “C-17 fantasy”. “There’s no question the C-17 is a magnificent strategic airlift aircraft, but our needs are tactical not strategic,” Mark’s statement read. “Worse, if we purchased only a couple of C-17’s, it is more likely these aircraft would combine with the Royal Australian Air Force in what our Prime Minister would talk up as some ‘ANZAC squadron’. It is cut, cut, cut in terms of operational capability, but above all, operational flexibility.” While there has been no official talk of establishing an ‘Anzac squadron’ of C-17s, as Australia will soon have a fleet of up to 10 C-17s in service and USAF C-17s regularly visit Christchurch in support of US Antarctic interests, there is already an established support base in the region which can be leveraged to sustain a potential small fleet of Kiwi C-17s. But at up to US$400m (NZ$517m) each including support infrastructure, spares and training, such an acquisition would comprise a huge chunk of the NZ annual defence budget of about NZ$3 billion.
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Post by macnz on Dec 22, 2014 19:01:00 GMT 12
Firstly - I'll be happy to see RNZAF get this kind of capability whether C-17 or A400Ms... However if wealthier countries in Europe are pooling their funding to pool-share in purchasing C-17s (i.e. NATO) and A330 MRT (see below) - how is NZ going to go-it alone and sustain 2-4 C-17s? Even if pool shared with AU, the "ANZAC" fleet would need a private consortium model (like UK does for its Voyagers and SAR) to fund it. I don't quite see ANZ or Qantas stepping up to do that down here. So anyone been talking to AirTanker or Bristow? Well I will watch with interest this mooted ANZAC concept - who knows P-8s, new Frigates and a sub could be the next thing for NZDF if this proves to have substance. www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/nato-trio-could-pool-a330-tanker-fleet-407333/Footnote: Canada is picking up a fifth C-17 because "Boeing requires all C-17s in the sustainment programme to receive a heavy maintenance check lasting up to five months every five years. As a result, all four C-17As delivered to Canada over two years would be required to undergo overlapping maintenance checks. Adding a fifth C-17 to the fleet could offset the loss of aircraft availability during the heavy maintenance period" www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/canada-will-purchase-fifth-c-17-407340/
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Post by isc on Dec 22, 2014 20:34:02 GMT 12
Interesting to see that the Canadian C-17s have been having problems with dud Chinese ic's in the instrument electronics. isc
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