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Post by isc on Mar 25, 2015 1:31:35 GMT 12
A German Wings (Airline) A-320 has crashed in the Southern French Alps on a flight from Barcelona to Dusseldorf, with 144 passengers and 6 crew. News source Aljaseera, first heard 02.15 AM Time of crash about 2 hours ago. There was a distress call from the aircraft. isc |
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Post by jimit on Mar 25, 2015 2:27:39 GMT 12
No more news until now. Only few confused reports by press service.
It seems that the plane has loss 20.000 ft in 8'... It's less than 3000 ft/min, as a normal liner descent...
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 25, 2015 2:32:28 GMT 12
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Post by suthg on Mar 25, 2015 6:33:48 GMT 12
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 25, 2015 7:04:28 GMT 12
Seems one of the tech crew declared 'Emergency, emergency' then same descent rate at around 4000fpm, same heading and same airspeed with no further comms then the 320 slams into the hill. Depressurisation?
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Post by angelsonefive on Mar 25, 2015 7:38:07 GMT 12
The Mayday was broadcast by ATC when it became obvious that something was very wrong.
There was no emergency R/T message sent by the aircraft.
a15
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 27, 2015 8:19:07 GMT 12
A really sad outcome finding it was a deliberate act by the FO. Really time to adopt the if one of the tech crew comes out one of us goes in rule. How horrible and selfish and crazy.
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 27, 2015 8:42:43 GMT 12
That's already the FAA rule, right? Is it a requirement on all flights to the USA, all airline flights within their airspace, or just on USA airlines?
Did anything change here after the AirNZ B777(?) lock-out stupidity a year or two back?
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Post by suthg on Mar 27, 2015 9:18:14 GMT 12
Another fairly full review of findings and outcomes here www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013109/Passengers-didn-t-realise-Germanwings-pilot-deliberately-flying-mountain-locking-captain-cockpit.htmlThe investigation is now a full-blown criminal enquiry. The plane was carrying six crew and 144 passengers, including 16 German teenagers returning home from a school trip, who had reportedly won the trip in a lottery of their classmates. It was the deadliest air crash on the French mainland since 1974 when a Turkish Airlines plane crashed, killing 346 people. Lufthansa said the aircraft was carrying citizens of 18 countries. Three Americans and three Britons were confirmed among the victims. Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Colombia, Denmark, France, Holland, Israel, Japan, Mexico and Morocco also had nationals on board, according to officials. 'I don't think that the passengers realised what was happening until the last moments because on the recording you only hear the screams in the final seconds. 'The intention was to destroy the plane. Death was instant. The plane hit the mountain at 700kmh (430mph). 'He did this for a reason which we don't know why, but we can only deduct that he destroyed this plane. 'We have asked for information from the German investigation on both his profession and personal background. 'There is no reason to suspect a terrorist attack. 'People who commit suicide usually do so alone... I don't call it a suicide.' And now they are calling it a Mass Murder - (very long detailed article, with many photos) www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.htmlIt also emerged today that his parents only discovered that their son was a mass murderer just minutes before the bombshell press conference by prosecutors in Marseille. All in all, very sad indeed. |
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 27, 2015 9:20:09 GMT 12
That's already the FAA rule, right? Is it a requirement on all flights to the USA, all airline flights within their airspace, or just on USA airlines? Did anything change here after the AirNZ B777(?) lock-out stupidity a year or two back? Nothing has changed here in NZ (as far as I am aware) and yes, it is a rule I am quite sure on most US carriers (as well as some other airlines around the world). Fortunately these incidents are quite rare. With everything that has been happening lately I think time for manufactures to build something in to the aircraft that crew can control from in the cabin (panic button if you like) that can then send an emergency signal to the ground and enable ops to take control. Out there yes, but after all that has happened of late...I just cannot for the life of me understand why he would take everyone with him. In total shock. |
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 27, 2015 9:22:32 GMT 12
Another fairly full review of findings and outcomes here www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013109/Passengers-didn-t-realise-Germanwings-pilot-deliberately-flying-mountain-locking-captain-cockpit.htmlThe investigation is now a full-blown criminal enquiry. The plane was carrying six crew and 144 passengers, including 16 German teenagers returning home from a school trip, who had reportedly won the trip in a lottery of their classmates. It was the deadliest air crash on the French mainland since 1974 when a Turkish Airlines plane crashed, killing 346 people. Lufthansa said the aircraft was carrying citizens of 18 countries. Three Americans and three Britons were confirmed among the victims. Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Colombia, Denmark, France, Holland, Israel, Japan, Mexico and Morocco also had nationals on board, according to officials. 'I don't think that the passengers realised what was happening until the last moments because on the recording you only hear the screams in the final seconds. 'The intention was to destroy the plane. Death was instant. The plane hit the mountain at 700kmh (430mph). 'He did this for a reason which we don't know why, but we can only deduct that he destroyed this plane. 'We have asked for information from the German investigation on both his profession and personal background. 'There is no reason to suspect a terrorist attack. 'People who commit suicide usually do so alone... I don't call it a suicide.' And now they are calling it a Mass Murder - (very long detailed article, with many photos) www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.htmlIt also emerged today that his parents only discovered that their son was a mass murderer just minutes before the bombshell press conference by prosecutors in Marseille. All in all, very sad indeed. Yep, you could not have said it better. Sickening. Someone decides to do something like that and we are bloody powerless to do anything. I can't come home to my partner and daughter because someone is having a bad day. Those people can't come back to their families because someone was having a bad day. All those kids...Hard to take. |
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 27, 2015 9:32:33 GMT 12
From AVHERALD:
On Mar 26th 2015 the States Attorney of Marseille (France) reported, the first officer was alone in the cockpit. The first officer was not talking, only normal breathing could be heard after the captain departed the cockpit. The captain was not able to get back into the cockpit. The first officer initiated a rapid descent, there was no reason to initiate the rapid descent, there was no reason to not communicate with air traffic control, there was no reason why the door wouldn't open. With the current information it can be said, that the breathing of the first officer is not consistent with someone suffering a heart attack or other health issue. Other than that there is absolute silence in the cockpit, screams are heard only in the last few moments. There were no words heard during the last 10 minutes of the flight. The states attorney thinks the first officer intentionally did not open the door.
In a joint press conference on Mar 26th 2015 Germanwings and Lufthansa stated they are shocked having to accept that according to cockpit voice recorder the first officer locked the captain out of the cockpit and deliberately steered the aircraft into terrain. Pilots undergo detailed assessment and psychological tests. The first officer started training in 2008, worked as a flight attendant, continued training after undergoing another assessment, passed all tests and started his pilot career as first officer on the A320 in 2013. The CEO of Lufthansa explained, that if after the extended code to enter the cockpit has been entered, the pilot in the cockpit receives a signal and has the ability to open the door or lock the door. If the pilot in the cockpit does not react at all, the cockpit door opens upon entering the extended code after some time. If the pilot in the cockpit selects to lock the door, the door remains locked for 5 minutes. Within the entire Lufthansa group there is no standard operating procedure requiring another member of the (cabin) crew to enter the cockpit if one of the pilots leaves the cockpit. The captain was permitted to leave the cockpit in cruise flight, e.g. for a toilet break.
On Mar 26th 2015 Germany's Minister of Transport said, he and his experts are hoping the flight data recorder can be found and read out to get more concrete information about the last minutes of the flight.
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Post by jonesy on Mar 27, 2015 11:47:04 GMT 12
On our flights to work each week (domestic in W.A) whenever one of the aircrew pops out of the cockpit one of the flight attendants goes in there in the interim. Maybe thats company policy (Virgin/Alliance) or just a chance for the pilot to have a "chat" with the hostie?  |
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 27, 2015 11:48:56 GMT 12
On our flights to work each week (domestic in W.A) whenever one of the aircrew pops out of the cockpit one of the flight attendants goes in there in the interim. Maybe thats company policy (Virgin/Alliance) or just a chance for the pilot to have a "chat" with the hostie? Probably Jonesy as I am VA INT and it's not policy with us neither is AU DOM. Maybe the Alliance merger they have different policy but tech crew/flighty was probably just bored. Would love to see it come in though. |
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Post by jonesy on Mar 27, 2015 12:14:23 GMT 12
Can see the logic with company policy requiring 2 staff in the cockpit at any given time. What would happen if the sole occupant had a sudden medical condition whilst the other pilot was out?
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 27, 2015 12:56:51 GMT 12
Can see the logic with company policy requiring 2 staff in the cockpit at any given time. What would happen if the sole occupant had a sudden medical condition whilst the other pilot was out? In that case you can still access from outside as the code would open the door because the person on the other side, being incapacitated, would not be able to deny it. |
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 27, 2015 13:14:10 GMT 12
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Mar 27, 2015 14:03:16 GMT 12
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Post by Darren Masters on Mar 27, 2015 15:38:11 GMT 12
Hopefully we follow. It's now a CAA wide requirement but seeing as though VA have just gone to CASA (same way Jetstar operates here) let's hope they have the brains to follow the CAA ruling. |
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 27, 2015 16:21:42 GMT 12
Not sure either of these two US regulations would guard against a determined #4U9525 style situation, though. /photo/1
27 Mar 2015 3:33 via TweetDeck
John Walton @thatjohn
Corollary to the US 2-person rule: the US also allows pilots to be armed, so a rogue pilot could just shoot the FA. /photo/1
27 Mar 2015 4:00 via TweetDeck
insert code here
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