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Post by jimit on Mar 27, 2015 1:46:33 GMT 12
You could make a contract with Air National to do VIP transport... Or in next future, when P-3K2 will be replaced, even choice an common platform such as Bombardier, Embraer for both service, Executive and MSA/MPA
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Post by suthg on Mar 27, 2015 6:16:33 GMT 12
Nothing beats the 757 for getting thousands to and fro Antarctica comfortably each season though. Probably their single largest function to perform.
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Post by frankly on Mar 27, 2015 6:27:53 GMT 12
Nothing beats the 757 for getting thousands to and fro Antarctica comfortably each season though. Probably their single largest function to perform. Are you kidding? Apart from having insufficient range to do the task properly, the lack of cargo handling equipment on the thing makes it a liability. Most "VIP" transport for NZ is done by buying a premium economy ticket with Air New Zealand. It's only in very rare cases the Boeings are used for offshore VIP work, and it tends to be when there is a large delegation (most of whom aren't VIPs) going to the same place. |
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Post by beagle on Mar 27, 2015 6:53:48 GMT 12
I just read a comment yesterday on another forum that the B757 flights to the ice are canned for future, but sure I read about a month ago that modifications to operating procedures had been changed
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 27, 2015 14:30:52 GMT 12
Also, how many trips did it make to the ice this season? Not enough for ' thousands, is it?
Sent from my D5503 using proboards
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2015 17:43:40 GMT 12
Thousands of what?
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Post by delticman on Mar 27, 2015 17:48:35 GMT 12
Pounds :-)
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Post by suthg on Mar 27, 2015 18:23:17 GMT 12
15 March 2013: The Royal New Zealand Air Force was responsible for shifting more than 5,500 people and approximately 2.5 million pounds in cargo utilising six RNZAF C-130 Hercules and four RNZAF Boeing 757 and US ice flights. This was the largest number of flights made by RNZAF B757 aircraft to Antarctica in a season. I can't see the Hercs shifting that number of people? So the US assist as well of course, both freight and pax. But the B757 does it's share of people movement, each journey south delivering and each journey north returning folk. Yes there was an issue in 2013 with one journey south where the plane continued south as weather deteriorated and a white out existed to low levels, the aircraft continued to circuit around the base awaiting improved conditions but then landed safely using trained procedures and the technical equipment as it existed then. 'Following the landing of an RNZAF B757 in difficult weather conditions in Antarctica in October 2013, the Air Force suspended southbound passenger-carrying B757 flights. Chief of Air Force Air Vice-Marshal (AVM) Mike Yardley said that after an Air Force investigation, changes to procedures for B757 flights to Antarctica including the calibration of equipment, meteorological minima, and risk assessment processes were implemented. Subsequent recommendations from an independent Transport Accident Investigation Commission (TAIC) report were consistent with the already implemented changes. AVM Yardley noted that TAIC had commended the skill and effectiveness of the crew in the investigated incident, and had provided validation of the training of personnel on Antarctic flights as robust and appropriate.' nzdf.mil.nz/news/media-releases/2015/20150205-aphhass.htm |
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Post by No longer identifiable on Mar 27, 2015 18:37:45 GMT 12
Is it even possible to move that many people plus freight using only 6 hercules and 4 B757 return flights, even allowing double counting for a flight each way?
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Post by suthg on Mar 27, 2015 18:42:00 GMT 12
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Post by beagle on Mar 27, 2015 19:22:34 GMT 12
Nothing beats the 757 for getting thousands to and fro Antarctica comfortably each season though. Probably their single largest function to perform. and don't forget drag racing Tony Abbott to Bejing in his slow BBJ |
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Post by macnz on Apr 4, 2015 11:27:16 GMT 12
beagle ..I vote VIP Kit in transporter for our deserving political masters. If we need personnel transporter for NZDF, then get Air NZ to add an extra 787 and share-lease on needs basis. If you need dedicated then maybe RNZAF should look at an Airbus330MTT so we can at least have refueling capability too to justify additional expense. Trips to Antarctic for Pollies? C-17 or A400M thats why they are looking at them isnt it?
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Post by macnz on Apr 4, 2015 11:42:41 GMT 12
You could make a contract with Air National to do VIP transport... Or in next future, when P-3K2 will be replaced, even choice an common platform such as Bombardier, Embraer for both service, Executive and MSA/MPA Part agree. Yes I think our P-3K2 replacement should be a Bombardier or Embraer platform spec'd for MSA/MPA. Boeing even offering this as alt. to their P-8s. Plenty of precedent in region, even UK decided to upgrade their Sentinel R1s to maritime last year (after slating them for disposal in 2010.) US posted RFI for their E3 replacements to be off a small jet platform too. www.janes.com/article/45057/uk-to-upgrade-sentinel-r-1s-for-maritime-operationswww.casr.ca/ai-bombardier-global-sma.htm |
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Post by macnz on Apr 17, 2015 13:22:49 GMT 12
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Post by beagle on Apr 17, 2015 19:10:21 GMT 12
We already have a pax /combi aircraft suitable for VIP work. What I am trying to say, is it more viable to keep one B757, or sell both and buy something else.
My choice would be A321LR
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Post by frankly on Apr 17, 2015 20:35:53 GMT 12
I'm not sure the role could be justified unless an airframe could be used primarily for some other purpose. A VIP/Pilot Trng/Pax transport variant based on the P-8 modified airframe might have some merit, but otherwise it would be very very hard to justify.
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Post by macnz on Apr 19, 2015 0:12:33 GMT 12
We already have a pax /combi aircraft suitable for VIP work. What I am trying to say, is it more viable to keep one B757, or sell both and buy something else. My choice would be A321LR ...there could be another option. A Private Finance Initiative (PFI) as done in UK and NATO in BE. In UK case, the PFI funded the purchase of 14 A330 MRTT aircraft. The RAF pay for AR and AT missions as required. The RAF retain responsibility for all military missions and have the "first call" on aircraft to mobilise in times of crisis. The consortium own, manage and maintain the aircraft and get paid to provide training facilities and some personnel. The private contractor is also entitled to earn extra revenue by using a proportion (5) of the fleet for commercial operations when not in use by the RAF — either as charters or leased air-refuelling missions for other European air forces. So as NZ Govt still have a major interest in AirNZ, get AirNZ into a consortium with Airbus to add 3 A330 MRTTs to the ANZ commercial fleet. Wet lease 2 to RNZAF for dedicated AT of troops and flying pollies. Use the remaining 1 for commercial charter or supplementary AR or AT services for RAAF and have MRO performed in AU. If either breaks down or are tied up on mission in another part of the world, then RNZAF can invoke the services of the spare. If NZ buy the A400M we also then have AR capability to support them and whatever we replace the P-3s with eventually. |
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Post by macnz on Apr 19, 2015 0:32:35 GMT 12
I'm not sure the role could be justified unless an airframe could be used primarily for some other purpose. A VIP/Pilot Trng/Pax transport variant based on the P-8 modified airframe might have some merit, but otherwise it would be very very hard to justify. not sure about the P-8 airframe that is already a specially modified 737-700 for MSA/MPA isnt it? If we are talking multi-tasking isnt it easier to interchange AR and AT? in which case the A330 MRTT probably better suited airframe. For the P-3K2 replacement I still believe we would be better off with 4 Bombardier or Embraer aircraft spec'd for MSA/MPA. We could even increase their utility by giving them ASTOR and SIGINT roles like the UK and US do with their Sentinel R1/ E-11A BACN so they can support the Army. Probably dont need for AEW like SG has with the Gulfstream G550. |
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Post by frankly on Apr 19, 2015 8:06:44 GMT 12
macnzYes, it's already specially modified. For me, that makes it attractive for VIP. The airframe becomes effectively a spare airframe (but without the mission kit) for the patrol fleet, and they share maintenance and parts. The airframe reduces the cycles on operational P-8s. That's only viable if P-8 replaces the Orions. Of course, there is always the option of a VIP module to fit inside a Globemaster....
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Post by macnz on Apr 19, 2015 12:09:40 GMT 12
Agree. Like the C-17, the P-8 may be a little too expensive for NZ needs but these days govts seem a lot more at ease to splash an extra billion here or there and to prove whose assets fly fastest to China. If we do end up with C-17, a few VIP pods - with parachutes - gets my vote
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