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Post by angelsonefive on May 22, 2015 9:16:20 GMT 12
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Post by flyinkiwi on May 22, 2015 9:23:16 GMT 12
Found this amusing cartoon which cuttingly spells out USAF thinking on the A-10 vs the F-15C: I think that the A-10 is a cheap, effective and battle proven aircraft and the USAF are nuts to dump them.
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Post by beagle on May 22, 2015 16:44:49 GMT 12
but you cannot fit an NH90 in it....
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Post by isc on May 22, 2015 20:54:29 GMT 12
How would it go as a VIP transport. isc
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Post by denysjones on May 22, 2015 21:03:45 GMT 12
Now let me get this right... since the budget didn't have the heaps of dosh in it to satisfy the C-17 speculators we now have to start to suggest something else equally improbable?
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 22, 2015 22:20:13 GMT 12
Realistically the Budget did not need to allocate any extra money for the transport replacement, there is already a fund in place for that, and such a capital purchase does not need to be announced in the Budget - the Texan II's were not.
And there was extra money allocated in the Budget for defence equipment upgrades and purchases anyway, I believe I heard on the radio news it was around an extra $250 million. It will probably be wasted on the Navy.
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Post by pepe on May 23, 2015 8:30:26 GMT 12
[ It will probably be wasted on the Navy.[/quote] Ouch! Am I sensing a wee grudge against our Senior Service?
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Post by thelensofhistory on May 23, 2015 12:15:25 GMT 12
Given how appalling the current and past governments track records in the area of defence , I don't find the idea of the RNZAF getting A-10's to be realistic at all.
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Post by baronbeeza on May 23, 2015 13:09:41 GMT 12
The Rent-a-crowd were appalled the other day. There will always be some nutter looking for something to get upset about. They must go through life looking on the gloomy side. I am sure many guys in the Defence Forces are having the time of their lives. For most they will be gaining life skills and experiences that will set them up for their future. Indeed there is a great time to be had. If you then think things are not running your way then you just bang out. Pretty simple stuff really. You may have to learn how to take a joke occasionally but then again you don't go to war expecting to win every battle. I remember I was appalled once, we lost a game of volleyball. To the blouses at PTS... There will be serving members on this forum. I wonder what they would get upset about www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/budget/2015/05/22/new-zealand-budget-navy-air-force-army-hercules-frigate-helicopter-sealift-anz
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 23, 2015 16:10:44 GMT 12
Ouch! Am I sensing a wee grudge against our Senior Service? I have no problem at all with the NZ Army (our senior service).
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Post by thelensofhistory on May 23, 2015 23:02:45 GMT 12
You may have to learn how to take a joke occasionally but then again you don't go to war expecting to win every battle. Didn't you get the memo? NZ doesn't need air power. Under War Plan Key Clark Waka's will serve in a ASW role. Depth chargers will be role over the side.
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Post by baronbeeza on May 24, 2015 0:47:06 GMT 12
Memo ? Hell I can think of at least two other members here that like myself were posted to Europe during the cold war and exposed to some of the planning involved there. There will be some bright cookies on these forums that have knowledge of the various planning actions. Strangely enough I can't recall any dissatisfaction as such, I think we all appreciated the resources we had and how to utilise and make the most of them. For my RAF colleagues the cold war was a real and serious threat, as indeed was the Falklands that many served in. One of my drinking mates was sunk twice just getting there. For all that the IRA were the guys I was most afraid of. No amount of training was going to prevent you getting taken out by them. During that particular period the RAF was often on heightened alert, the guys were living and breathing warfare and the realities of being in uniform.
I guess it is pretty well known now that the RAF was not in the best of condition at the time of the Falklands but that was just how circumstances panned out. The perceived threat was elsewhere and the new types were not coming into service as quickly as had been hoped. Sometimes you get the feeling that no amount of money is going to help your particular cause anyway. It is nice to be in the right posting when the new equipment comes your way but you just make the most of what you get given otherwise. Another of my drinking buddies was in the UK getting ready to look after the new Hawks the Zim AF was getting. Just a few months later he would have had about half of them left after saboteurs had paid a visit. He may have been 'appalled' but Mugabe dealt with it in true African fashion. It wasn't pleasant... Real life, not magazine or internet stuff there. About 18 years later I bumped into one of the bombers and had a little chat about the events of the night. I have also driven a bus past the particular air base about 10 years after the event so had a pretty clear idea of the location and layout anyway.
I was probably a little closer to the events of 'Blackhawk Down' than I should have been in retrospect also.
Indeed there is plenty of military action going on about the show if you go looking for it. The world is not so large in many respects.
For whatever reason I just haven't seen too much action in the local region just yet.
The most impressive hardware I have seen was flying about Texas in the lead up to the first Gulf War. The trains coming out of Fort Hood area were just chocka with armoured vehicles and the like. It was nothing like what I had experienced just a decade earlier in the UK when the Poms were gearing up for the Falklands. For all that their expertise just had to make up for the lack of hardware.
Like many here I think we are attracted to wars and battlefields and the likes. There are lessons to be learned from history for sure. The most sobering battlegrounds for me would have been looking out over Red Beach 1 at Tarawa and walking around the Citadel in Hue. In both those battles the guys with all the resources had real problems, nothing was guaranteed at all. Many went on to lose their lives right there..
The Defence planners, management and the Govt have structures and systems in place and it is their job to do the right thing. They are the guys with the money and the resources and have been tasked to look after the Nation's defence interests. A massive juggle and I guess impossible to please everyone. Just a fact of life and not something I would be loosing sleep over.
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Post by thelensofhistory on May 24, 2015 2:15:57 GMT 12
I take it you are referring to the Rhodesian Air Force in the UDI years? Your right about their being lessons to be learned from history. I was attempting to display a sense of humor while making this point. I could have made a more serious point about air power. But I am sure the members of this forum are already well aware and would be able to express it better then I ever could. Defence planners are constraint by the decisions of a sitting government. Just look at the Falklands War. If Argentina had waited 6 months or a year the RN wouldn't have had any carriers in service. Sure money isn't the complete answer. But who looks out for the NZDF? Just who should speak out about how Kiwi troops in Afghanistan were entirely reliant on coalition partners for CAS?
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Post by macnz on May 24, 2015 3:25:49 GMT 12
Does the RNZAF have any CAS capability? Do the NH90s possess/certified even with rockets? ADF have at least Tigers to provide CAS for their diggers. Would be a nice thought for RNZAF to acquire the A10 and reenter the offensive domain but very unlikely. Best they could perhaps hope to do is buy the Oto Merla 20mm vulcan that is palletised and we load them on a couple of our Hercs to transform them into 'makeshift' Spectres*. Only couple million a piece per kit the company is claiming and requires no external modification of the aircraft fuselage just stick it out the parachute door. (*) The AC-130H Spectre was armed with two 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannons, one Bofors 40mm autocannon, and one 105 mm M102 cannon. The upgraded AC-130U “Spooky” has a single 25 mm GAU-12 Equalizer (Gattling-type) in place of the Spectre’s twin 20 mm cannons, an improved fire control system, and increased ammunition capacity. The AC-130W is armed with one 30 mm Bushmaster cannon, AGM-176 Griffin missiles, and GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs.
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Post by baronbeeza on May 24, 2015 8:09:46 GMT 12
A few years later, the new Zim AF. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/military-obituaries/air-force-obituaries/7958780/Air-Marshal-Norman-Walsh.htmlwww.nytimes.com/1983/06/06/world/torture-is-key-issue-in-zimbabwe-trial-of-6-airmen.htmlMugabe didn't like the bloodied nose he received and took the easy course of action. Blame his own men !! Charming. Now the thread is heading off on all kinds of tangents but as for the A-10 thing I would have thought most militaries look at the proposed role and work from there. The A-10's I have seen have been big (real big) tank busting type aircraft. It must have been a while since the RNZAF went to action against tanks. Do we now need to go looking for enemies that fit our 'profile' ? I have little time for the modern media and the way our 'news' is presented these days but we can see where the threat is all the same. The media are calling them 'immigrants' but ISIS and similar groups are going to be most formidable opponents. Only a fool would resort to military strength when there are much better subtle methods of achieving a result. 'Boots on the ground, Hearts and minds' etc. Very similar to how the colonising powers used the missionaries and traders. What kind of modern weapon is effective against that stuff ? I was in the UK during the hunger strikes, indeed I was in the military and hence a target. I mentioned earlier that the IRA was more of a personal worry to me than getting nuked while enjoying my pint. I was having a steak and a beer in a restaurant down in London when a bomb went off down the road a little. I have never heard a nuke exploding.. Personally I would be much happier with increased defence spending being diverted towards intelligence, software and border control. Did Bill English ever say where they planned to spend the cash coming from the airport levy ?
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Post by isc on May 24, 2015 20:36:51 GMT 12
I hear the RAF has been scrambled resently against the threat of intrusion by Russian aircraft, a bit cold war stile. isc
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Post by hamfists on May 26, 2015 19:51:54 GMT 12
Do they make non depleted uranium projectiles for the gun? Chances of flinging uranium all round south kaipara with our environmental sensibilities are practically zero...?!
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 28, 2015 19:43:58 GMT 12
Stu Bain sent me this, I am sure the kiwi pilots would quite enjoy this close air support stuff
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Post by TS on May 28, 2015 20:33:08 GMT 12
The day the RNZAF gets A 10's will be the day Christ wears short pants !!!!!
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