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Post by frankly on Aug 15, 2019 18:14:35 GMT 12
You will probably find the aircraft will come "fitted for not with" in terms of the wiring, mounting points etc for external weapons Incorrect. They're standard P-8As. They'll be fitted with the hard points and wring. Purchasing weapons is a seperate issue.
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Post by ErrolC on Aug 16, 2019 8:14:49 GMT 12
bit.ly/2TyELGVBoeing recently upgraded the Royal New Zealand Air Force’s (RNZAF) fleet of six P-3K2 Orion aircraft with state-of-the-art acoustics processing and training simulation technology ... Delivered under a US$22 million contract to enhance the nation’s airborne anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capability, this is the first time the technology has been installed on P-3 Orion aircraft anywhere in the world. First awarded in late 2016, the project included upgrades and modifications to mission systems and aircraft components, as well as inflight and ground-based simulation for training, spares and maintenance support. With the first aircraft upgrades completed just under 18 months following contract award, the final aircraft is now complete – providing the RNZAF fleet with dramatically-improved ASW capability. This upgrade will help bridge the gap until replacement with the P-8A Poseidon to maintain a core capability. ...
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Post by gibbo on Aug 16, 2019 16:50:07 GMT 12
You will probably find the aircraft will come "fitted for not with" in terms of the wiring, mounting points etc for external weapons Incorrect. They're standard P-8As. They'll be fitted with the hard points and wring. Purchasing weapons is a seperate issue. To be fair 80% of the value the P8A will bring to the NZDF & the 5-eyes collective is it's surveillance capability so they will be a valuable asset regardless of weapons loads. AFAIK there's been no public acknowledgement of anything other than an assumption they'll carry the same weapons that the P3K2 carry (assuming it actually can carry them!?!). Yes weapons purchase is a separate issue to purchase of the a/c themselves but one would hope that the NZ Govt is prepared to shell out to weaponise them similarly to allies.... it's early days yet I guess.
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Post by frankly on Aug 17, 2019 9:05:17 GMT 12
Incorrect. They're standard P-8As. They'll be fitted with the hard points and wring. Purchasing weapons is a seperate issue. To be fair 80% of the value the P8A will bring to the NZDF & the 5-eyes collective is it's surveillance capability so they will be a valuable asset regardless of weapons loads. AFAIK there's been no public acknowledgement of anything other than an assumption they'll carry the same weapons that the P3K2 carry (assuming it actually can carry them!?!). Yes weapons purchase is a separate issue to purchase of the a/c themselves but one would hope that the NZ Govt is prepared to shell out to weaponise them similarly to allies.... it's early days yet I guess. Yep but that isn't what was being said. They are not 'fitted for' hard points/databus etc, they are fitted with. Edit - also to add that torpedo replacement is in the DCP.
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Post by gibbo on Aug 17, 2019 9:17:49 GMT 12
To be fair 80% of the value the P8A will bring to the NZDF & the 5-eyes collective is it's surveillance capability so they will be a valuable asset regardless of weapons loads. AFAIK there's been no public acknowledgement of anything other than an assumption they'll carry the same weapons that the P3K2 carry (assuming it actually can carry them!?!). Yes weapons purchase is a separate issue to purchase of the a/c themselves but one would hope that the NZ Govt is prepared to shell out to weaponise them similarly to allies.... it's early days yet I guess. Yep but that isn't what was being said. They are not 'fitted for' hard points/databus etc, they are fitted with. Edit - also to add that torpedo replacement is in the DCP. Yep with you on that one, just soothing any panic about no AShM being bought at this point.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Aug 18, 2019 8:54:18 GMT 12
It appears that a definition of "Fitted for not with" is required. The military definition is that if a platform is fitted for means that all the appropriate plumbing and wiring is built into the structure. The "not with" bit is that the platform does not come with the deployable stores/weapons as part of the purchase. Previous examples are the P3B's that came fitted for tactical nuclear weapons but obviously not "with" the ANZAC frigates came fitted for some stand off weapons, but these were part of the purchase
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Post by saratoga on Aug 18, 2019 9:21:56 GMT 12
'Fitted for not with' is as above, usually a hardware/wiring/plumbing capability. Particularly these days,the 'with' also requires software/interface that may(or more likely may not) be part of an ordnance purchase.
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Post by frankly on Aug 18, 2019 16:08:01 GMT 12
It appears that a definition of "Fitted for not with" is required. The military definition is that if a platform is fitted for means that all the appropriate plumbing and wiring is built into the structure. The "not with" bit is that the platform does not come with the deployable stores/weapons as part of the purchase. Previous examples are the P3B's that came fitted for tactical nuclear weapons but obviously not "with" the ANZAC frigates came fitted for some stand off weapons, but these were part of the purchase I'm well aware of the definition. You're confusing systems with capabilities. Wiring looms, database and hard points for attaching a weapon are there -'fitted with.' The weapon is the missing piece, and basically nothing else. The part that is integrated with the primarily platform is all there. Your definition would be more appropriate for 'fitted for but not with' some like CIWS on the Anzacs. Power, cabling and reinforced deck structure being fitted, but the all-up system isn't. The parts that are integrated with the primary platform isn't there. The P-8 example is different - everything necessary to launch a weapon is included except the weapon itself (and probably the software module, but that's moot).
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Post by Gavin Conroy on Aug 18, 2019 18:32:37 GMT 12
I had a good look through it the other day at Ohakea, the crews were great and had no issues taking photos of anything that was on show. It is an impressive machine and I really hope it is left to serve the roles it is designed for and not made to try and be a jack of all trades, will be interesting to see what platforms end up supporting the P-8.
I did not know a lot about the P-8 going in and one of the most impressive pieces of kit are the rotary sonobuoy launches down the back, fantastic innovation.
Am happy to post some of the images once Kiwi Flyer have done their thing so if there is interest in seeing them let me know.
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Post by oj on Aug 18, 2019 19:17:25 GMT 12
Fitted for, not with. The addition of a simple comma can provide immense clarity in place of a bouncing technical discourse ...
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Post by baz62 on Aug 19, 2019 5:16:43 GMT 12
Am happy to post some of the images once Kiwi Flyer have done their thing so if there is interest in seeing them let me know. This is me letting you know.....post away!🙂
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Post by ZacYates on Aug 20, 2019 1:24:42 GMT 12
Me too! I was very excited to see you posting a P-8 photo from Ohakea, Gavin!
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Post by harrysone on Aug 20, 2019 13:59:40 GMT 12
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Post by Mustang51 on Aug 20, 2019 16:25:13 GMT 12
Nice...............perhaps one day I'll get there.........
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Post by nighthawknz on Aug 20, 2019 16:54:32 GMT 12
Nice...............perhaps one day I'll get there......... perhaps one day we will get the P-8... Oh wait... never mind... lol
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Post by mcmaster on Aug 20, 2019 17:49:08 GMT 12
Nice photo. You'd think however they'd get a few more people for the shot from the RNZAF Orion squadron? Or is that maybe because its not their home base?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 21, 2019 9:17:46 GMT 12
Correct, this is Ohakea, and the squadron is based currently at Whenuapai.
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by madmark on Aug 21, 2019 18:30:14 GMT 12
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Post by isc on Aug 21, 2019 22:41:19 GMT 12
Should have sent a P-3 and the P-8 off independently to see who did the best job. isc
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Post by kiwiredley on Aug 22, 2019 1:24:47 GMT 12
Should of sent the PBY5A, it could of picked the bloke up
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