FLt/Lt Barry Martin

[sammcneill]

Good Morning,

I’m doing some research on Old Collegians from St Andrew’s College that served and died in the various wars since the College was founded.

I have found quite a bit of information around Flight Lieutenant Barry Martin DFC so far, and am wanting to dig a bit deeper.

I am wondering if anyone here is likely to have any information on him, his squadron (7 Squadron RAF), or his citation for his DFC.

He was killed 2nd February 1943 and I am trying to find out what his mission was on that day etc.

The following have been of some use:

www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-memorial/online-cenotaph/record/C29068?n=barry%20martin&ordinal=0&from=%2Fwar-memorial%2Fonline-cenotaph%2Fsearch%2F

www.bombercommandmemorial.co.nz/#d=_casualty/martin-b

www.nzwargraves.org.nz/casualties/barry-martin

His medals, including his DFC, were sold at auction: www.bonhams.com/auctions/21704/lot/154/

I also found two letters (including one from his mother) in Under a Bomber’s Sky:

books.google.co.nz/books?id=soaeD5nhPkUC&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=barry+martin+dfc&source=bl&ots=8vKG3mHsgf&sig=hVImdqkpXSC-WVS0ythFi-eStR8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7_sPVm7rJAhVhrKYKHafJARUQ6AEIOjAG#v=onepage&q=barry%20martin%20dfc&f=false


My next step would be to get his military records from the NZ Defence Archives, but I am very keen to know if anyone would have any information on him as well or be able to int me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance,

Sam

[errolmartyn]

Sam,

Fate and bio details of the eight St Andrews College old boys who died while serving with the air force during WWII (6) and after (2) may be found in my 'For Your Tomorrow' trilogy.

Errol

[sammcneill]

Hi Errol,

Thank you for this - this is an outstanding tip off, and I can see it is at my local Fendalton library as well:

christchurch.bibliocommons.com/item/show/230435037_for_your_tomorrow

I'm off to grab a copy!

Many thanks
Sam

[sammcneill]

Hi Errol,

I grabbed the book and read the summary of Barry Martin DFC. I see your account differs from that in this book:

books.google.co.nz/books?id=MoE7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PR29&lpg=PR29&dq=barry+martin+dfc&source=bl&ots=BFkcUIANmt&sig=kiszQjliYBdHLVcqVbVbgFCNB_g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7_sPVm7rJAhVhrKYKHafJARUQ6AEIKjAD#v=onepage&q=barry%20martin%20dfc&f=false

That suggested Barry Martin's plane was shot down by en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Dieter_Frank as kill #19 (of #55) although Frank was later killed in a mid air collision.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Sam

[errolmartyn]

Dec 2, 2015 14:34:29 GMT 12 sammcneill said:

Hi Errol,

I grabbed the book and read the summary of Barry Martin DFC. I see your account differs from that in this book:

books.google.co.nz/books?id=MoE7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PR29&lpg=PR29&dq=barry+martin+dfc&source=bl&ots=BFkcUIANmt&sig=kiszQjliYBdHLVcqVbVbgFCNB_g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7_sPVm7rJAhVhrKYKHafJARUQ6AEIKjAD#v=onepage&q=barry%20martin%20dfc&f=false

That suggested Barry Martin's plane was shot down by en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Dieter_Frank as kill #19 (of #55) although Frank was later killed in a mid air collision.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Sam

Sam,

The Knacke reference came from W. R. ('Bill') Chorley's 1943 volume of RAF Bomber Command Losses published in 1996. Dr Theo E. W. Boiten's first volume of Nachtjadgd War Diaries - An operational history of the German Night Fighter Force in the West credits Frank with the downing of the 7 Squadron Stirling. Unfortunately this latter, authoritative work was not published until 2008 (the same year as the final volume of my trilogy) and thus the opportunity to incorporate an amendment by me was missed.

Errol

[sammcneill]

Thanks Errol,

I'm looking forward to going through your Trilogy in more detail and obtaining the details for each of the StAC Old Colls.

Regards,
Sam

[sammcneill]

Erroll,

I wonder if you can clarify a couple of questions I've got from reading your trilogy.

Firstly, this stat on NZ'ers in flying in the war:

"57.5% died before their 25th birthday, 89.5% by their 30th,average age of death 24.5 years"

Are those numbers of ALL NZ'ers who flew (both dead and survived) or JUST those that were killed i.e. looked at another way,of those that died, only 11.5% of them lived past 30 before their death. I'm interested in this because Barry Martin was 31yrs old and therefore clearly "beat some odds".

Secondly, he was on his second tour when killed - am I right that those pilots that survived their first tour were usually assigned to "safer" roles of being training staff and that you generally had to choose to go back and do a second tour?

Lastly, I'm after some "definitive" stats for Bomber Command in WW2 - there are lots of sites that purport to have this, many with matching numbers e.g.

www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/commandlosses.html
www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/the-bombing-campaign-of-world-war-two/bomber-command-statistics/
www.rafinfo.org.uk/BCWW2Losses/BC-RoH-casstats.htm

Also, claims to "life expectancy" of six weeks e.g. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/may/14/bomber-command-war-memorial

tail gunners = 4 weeks? ww2talk.com/forums/topic/47672-life-expectancy-of-crews/

I'd certainly appreciate any steering towards reliable figures.

Cheers
Sam

[sammcneill]

HI All,
If you're interested in my research into Barry Martin I've made a recorded narration and blogged about it here:

eblog.stac.school.nz/2016/05/30/modelling-google-earth-tours-internet-research/

Cheers
Sam