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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 16, 2016 23:34:42 GMT 12
Wow, it has been a quarter of a century since that incredible day in 1991 when the world went to war against Iraq. I remember it so vividly, listening to the radio broadcast of the news updates in our No. 1TTS classroom, and the realisation that suddenly here we were at war and I was in the military, and our guys were there - some of them I knew. It was scary, exciting, electric. At lunchtime we rushed to the barracks and watched the live CNN broadcasts. Not much initially but over coming days those incredible press conferences beaming live around the world showing smart bombs taking out bunkers, and A-10's squirting hell into tanks and vehicles. For some RNZAF personnel it wasn't a TV broadcast, it was all too real. Let's not forget their contribution.
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Jan 17, 2016 11:11:01 GMT 12
My word - 25 years!! I also remember events rather vividly, I was working as an electrician for a large contracting firm in Hawkes Bay and a radio was always handy whilst out on the job. Watching the build up and then finally the launch of ODS was fascinating and at times worrying considering the potential for a Scud loaded with something NBC could have created a different world today. I might dust off the excellent autobio from 'Stormin Norman' and re-read it
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 17, 2016 11:47:54 GMT 12
It was also an interesting time at Ohakea. 75 Sqn was in training to go to war, 2 Sqn were about to be deployed to Nowra and there was talk that the Nowra deployment would go on hold as all our A-4s and personnel would be needed to support 75 Sqn. The paint shop were all geared up to repaint the aircraft in desert camo, the deployment route to the Gulf had been worked out and everyone was being lined up at Medical for their jabs. The 75 Squadron Gulf War happy hour was very memorable - Sadam Husain even put in an appearance!
Sadly nothing happened and 75 Sqn went to Williamtown as planned for a WILLOH Exercise at the end of January and 2 Sqn deployed to Nowra as planned at the beginning of February. Oh what might have been eh, had our politicians had some balls! Had we deployed the A-4s they would have been one of the most sophisticated ground attack aircraft in theatre with their then brand new Kahu avionics. We would most likey have been based alongside the Kuwaiti A-4s as they had had to leave all of their ground equipment, ground crew and spares in Kuwait when they evacuated to Saudi.
A great opportunity was lost to demonstrate the value in having an Air Combat Force, something we would pay dearly for 10 years later under HC and Co.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 17, 2016 12:00:14 GMT 12
Was that a genuine plan to operate with the Kuwaiti Air Force? Would the A-K's not have come under RAF command as part of Operation Granby, and operated alongside the Tornadoes and Buccaneers?
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Post by baz62 on Jan 17, 2016 14:22:15 GMT 12
Was that a genuine plan to operate with the Kuwaiti Air Force? Perhaps based with the KAF only as far as servicing/arming needs (since as Don points out our gear would not be going with the aircraft.) They would likely be doing the same role as the KAF Skyhawks so whatever the operational needs of the day were (and I don't know wether the KAF Skyhawks operated under the RAF or US operational control?).
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Post by ZacYates on Jan 18, 2016 15:16:25 GMT 12
Fascinating stuff Don! I feel a "what if?" model build coming on.
I was only a toddler when this was all happening, so it's a real surprise to read from Dave and Don about how seriously our serving folks saw it all. Is there a chance we have forumites who actually served in the theatre in some way?
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Post by thelensofhistory on Jan 18, 2016 16:42:57 GMT 12
A great opportunity was lost to demonstrate the value in having an Air Combat Force, something we would pay dearly for 10 years later under HC and Co. The RNZAF could get away with not deploying Air Combat Capabilities during the Gulf War. The day is coming when much closer to home this won't be the case.When that day comes Clark , Key and Co are going to have a lot to answer for to say the least. Coming back to the Gulf War for a moment. Interestingly the RAAF Air Combat Force/capabilities weren't deployed to Kuwait either. The Australian contingent was mostly a naval presence.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 18, 2016 17:01:51 GMT 12
Zac, it was all very real indeed. I've mentioned this before on the forum but I recall not long before the shooting war started there was a large anti-war protest march up Queen Street, Auckland, which I happened to witness from the sideline as I was in the city at the time. It was a bizarre feeling knowing we were going to war for the first time since 1975, and seeing the reaction of the civilian people - those in the march and those watching from the pavement as their shopping was interrupted, most of whom in both lots did not actually understand why NZ was getting involved.
I definitely remember that peace march was made up of the usual greenie types, scarfies and a few oldies and the old Vietnam War agitators but there was a good number of punks or anarchist types in the group who all seemed to be badgering the onlookers and seemed to be absolutely spoiling for a fight - which to me seemed incredibly ironic. Here was I, an airman who's sole purpose was to defend the peaceful lifestyle and right to free speech of these people watching these aggressive, angry, fisty little turds shouting abuse at shopping families and inciting violence as they marched up the street in the name of peace. I was thankful not to be in uniform that day.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 18, 2016 17:18:25 GMT 12
I think you will find that there will be NZ'ers about in almost all these actions. I am not necessarily talking about those that were currently serving at the time but Kiwis are well travelled and for some the mere nature of their work has them living in those places.
I was with the RAF during the Falklands build-up, in the RNZAF but still attended some briefings. A few of my drinking mates went down on the first ships. I got the impression the RAF were not at all prepared for such action, they were torn somewhere between the Cold War and the IRA bombings at that time.
I was flying in Texas in the lead up to Desert Sword and then Desert Storm. The trains with armoured vehicles leaving the Fort Hood region was quite something. The Yanks were treating that build-up very seriously.
I met many NZ'ers in Africa and with the constant stream of activity there met any number that were not at all far from the conflict. It was just a part of life and I know a few names appearing here that were operating in Sudan and Somalia during the fighting in those regions. My pay would have been coming from Farah Aidid's pockets in an indirect way but seeing as it was all arriving as US Dollars wrapped in newsprint you have to imagine the source of it. Some of the guys I know were much closer to the action and would have been on the 'away' team also.
Indeed from what I have seen I would be most surprised if we didn't have Kiwis playing for the other team in many of these conflicts. Their skills may be in demand by both teams.
I should add that with the military it is normally pretty clear who is on your side and who you are fighting. What I observed was that things aren't so clearcut when you get politicians, NGO's, contract workers and I guess mercenaries floating about.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 18, 2016 18:03:24 GMT 12
Desert Sword? Do you mean Desert Shield?
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 18, 2016 18:20:13 GMT 12
Sorry, I think I got that guess wrong. Yep, whatever the build-up phase was. I think even the Texan media would have got the name correct. www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/desert_sabre.htmI must have heard the name somewhere. I just got mixed up with operations.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 18, 2016 21:15:35 GMT 12
Was that a genuine plan to operate with the Kuwaiti Air Force? Would the A-K's not have come under RAF command as part of Operation Granby, and operated alongside the Tornadoes and Buccaneers? The US were looking for a fast and easy way to get the Kuwaiti A-4s back in the fight. All they had were their 20 odd aircraft, the pilots who flew them and the clothes they were wearing! They had to leave everything else behind when they left Kuwait. Deploying us along side of them would have solved their logistics and ground crew problem (and the Saudi's/Kuwaiti's would have paid NZ handsomely!). But instead they employed civilian contractors (mercenaries), all former USN/USMC guys. The USMC were still actively flying A-4Ms at that time and had just started disbanding squadrons, so sending over all of the weapons, spares and support equipment they needed wasn't really a problem (they just raided the boneyard). We probably would have come under the RAF command Dave but would have been used in a close air support role (what the A-4 was best at) rather than the longer range tactical strike the Tornados were doing. If we had gone I'm picking we would have fired a LOT of Mavericks... All pie in the sky stuff now but at the time these were the things various people in the RNZAF were seriously thinking about. Had we deployed the A-4s there were a few "fast track" mods we would have had to do to the aircraft (the first four we subsequently did to the aircraft anyway): 1. Fit and test the KY-58 secure radio kit to all aircraft - Kahu had installed the wiring etc. but it was not yet tested in 1991 (secret squirrel stuff). 2. Fit and test the Mode 4 IFF kit (same deal as above). 3. Programme the radar warning system with the threat and friendly radars 4. Update the weapon inventory software for any additional weapons were would be carrying 5. Uprate the engines (basically run the engine hotter to produce more thrust at full power - can be done but reduces engine life) 6. Repaint the aircraft
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 18, 2016 21:32:04 GMT 12
I remember at the infamous 75 Sqn Gulf War Happy Hour the CO was asked when we would be given our NBC kit. "When we arrive" didn't instill anyone with much confidence given that we could be going into a potential NBC war zone. I think it was the same for the 40 Sqn guys who did go. They had to beg and borrow all their NBC kit on arrival. Our NBC training certainly got a lot more real after than (on Recruit/NCO Promotion/STO courses). It was a good lesson learnt from the Gulf War. GSI Piggy McKay had a lot to do with that.
I also remember much discussion in the crew rooms and bars about actually going to war, who would go and who would refuse to. Surprisingly not everyone was gung ho about wanting to go to war. I remember my boss at the time (our FLT LT MFC) reckoned he would refuse to go to war over oil.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 18, 2016 22:04:10 GMT 12
Interesting stuff. Yes, there were a couple on Base Auckland censured for their opinions on the war too.
I reckon you and Barf should wheel one of those spare Museum Skyhawks down to the paint shop and spray some desert pink on it, to mark the 25th Anniversary.
Interestingly between the beginning of Operation Desert Shield on the 7th of August 1990 and the actual war beginning on the 17th of September 1991, New Zealand went through three Prime Ministers. Geoffrey Palmer was overthrown by Mike Moore on the 4th of September 1990, who was then voted out of office in the election on the 2nd of November 1990 and Jim Bolger became PM. So was the change in plans to send No. 75 Squadron a change in Government policy enacted by the new National Government?
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Post by flyinkiwi on Jan 19, 2016 8:17:06 GMT 12
My word - 25 years!! I also remember events rather vividly, I was working as an electrician for a large contracting firm in Hawkes Bay and a radio was always handy whilst out on the job. I was working at a Fish n Chip shop on Waiheke Island when the boss ran in yelling that bombs were falling on Baghdad. I remember standing there in disbelief because we all thought Saddam would back down in the face of overwhelming force.
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Post by obiwan27 on Jan 19, 2016 10:48:59 GMT 12
I was living and working in London at the time. CNN was the most watched TV channel, aside from the BBC. Heavily armed police and armoured personnel carrier(s) at Heathrow, plus signs on the underground to be alert for suspicious packages etc. A real eye opener for a wide-eyed 25 year old Kiwi on his first trip to England. There was during this time a mortar attack on 10 Downing Street, perpetrated by the IRA. We were frisked going into Harrods before Xmas and advised it was a precaution due to past IRA related events. At that stage it was still Desert Shield of course.
Once Desert Storm kicked off we were glued to the TV in the morning and evening, in between watching the Simpsons.
One non-European bloke predicted the war would last for years and western countries would have a different viewpoint on the whole thing after this time. The shooting war was all over before my 26th birthday.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 19, 2016 11:17:16 GMT 12
TV One dropped all their coverage and had CNN streaming full time, only stopping occasionally for their own One News bulletins. Most of the world had never heard of CNN before this and suddenly they were in everyone's living rooms, even the world leaders were admitting most of their updates were coming from CNN coverage live from the field. That network really made its mark. A shame it has turned into such a trashy network these days.
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Post by isc on Jan 19, 2016 20:09:05 GMT 12
I think the reason TVNZ picked up on CNN was that Peter Arnett from Invercargill was reporter on the spot the. Just added the Kiwi touch. isc
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Post by mumbles on Jan 21, 2016 20:52:40 GMT 12
I was mowing the lawns when it kicked off - dad came out into the back yard to tell me. After I finished the lawns the family spent most of the rest of the day camped in the lounge watching CNN, including the first scud attack on Jerusalem live as it happened. Later on I went off to do my paper round, with the Evening Post banner headline of "IT'S WAR" printed in red, which was one of the first times that paper used colour. Interesting times.
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Post by mumbles on Jan 21, 2016 20:54:09 GMT 12
Hey Don is there any info or details on what the repaint would have looked like? Might make an interesting "what if" build subject.
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