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Post by oj on Mar 24, 2016 19:34:57 GMT 12
Big brother is going up north in April to help Noel Hilliam and the team salvage the Mustang from the northern Wairoa river. The aircraft has been positively located and all the necessary protocols regarding clearances from RNZAF, Police, NOK, Iwi etc are in place. The plan is to use the water efflux from a powerful tethered jet-boat to sluice the mud and silt from the wreck. The operation will start at high tide on an outgoing tide so the mud is washed away and will continued throughout the fall of the tide until low water. When the wreck is clear enough of mud, trained divers (working blind as the river is so dirty) will attach lifting slings. A large twin-pontoon lifting apparatus (normally used for floating Kauri logs out of swamps) will be employed to lift the wreck as the tide rises. When fully raised at high tide, the pontoon vessel will position itself over a boat-ramp and lower the wreck onto the ramp. When the tide goes out again the wreck will be left exposed on the boat ramp. It can then be lifted onto a truck (after the pilot remains are removed and protocols observed) and will be taken initially to Noel's farm and unloaded. I do not know what day in April this is scheduled to start, but it will be of great local interest. Here is a link to the local newspaper article about it back in February: www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/dargaville-districts/76255460/new-search-for-p51-mustang-last-seen-over-dargaville-in-the-1950s
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 24, 2016 19:52:30 GMT 12
I meant to post a link to an article (from the local rag I think) back in Feb.
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Post by errolmartyn on Mar 24, 2016 20:13:12 GMT 12
From my For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Two: Fates 1943-1998):
Sun 20 Mar 1955 Low flying and aerobatics 1 (Auckland) Squadron, TAF (Whenuapai) North American Mustang P-51D NZ2425 - took off at 1131 for an hour-long practice and last seen 20 minutes later at 4000 feet disappearing in a westerly direction towards the low flying area, after which nothing further heard. The captain of a Sunderland later sighted flotsam and oil in the sea, which could have indicated that NZ2425 crashed in the sea off Muriwai Beach. A buoyancy pad from a life jacket of the type worn by the pilot, a Mustang’s seat back pad and fragments of wreckage were also later found on the beach. Pilot: 457404 Plt Off Andrew Ian FRENCH, TAF - Age 22. 122hrs solo (46 on Mustang)
And Volume Three (Biorgraphies & Appendices)
FRENCH, Pilot Officer Andrew Ian. 457404; b Ellerslie, Auckland 5 May 32; Morrinsville Coll (1st XI/XV) & Auckland Univ Coll; student. TAF (for CMT service) Taieri as Pilot u/t 7 Jan 52, NRW 19 Mar 52 [to Wigram for No.1 Univ Pilots Cse 12-22 May, 23 Aug-6 Sep & 24 Nov-27 Feb 53], Comm 23 Apr 52, 1 (Auckland) Sqn TAF (Harvard/Mustang) 28 Feb 53 [to Wigram for continuation of cse 28 Nov-28 Feb 54 & att Ohakea for annual camp 6-20 Feb 55], Pilots Badge 25 Feb 54, kaa 20 Mar 55 (Mustang). Body not recovered. Son of Andrew Aicken & Martha Bowie French (née Richmond), Auckland.
Errol
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Mar 24, 2016 21:29:40 GMT 12
Wow, that is really significant. Kudos to the team
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Post by pepe on Mar 25, 2016 15:17:37 GMT 12
I know that I am easily confused, but "if" the P-51 is in the muddy old Northern Wairoa River, where did the Muriwai flotsam come from as reported in Errol's book?
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 25, 2016 18:12:24 GMT 12
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Post by pepe on Mar 25, 2016 19:13:15 GMT 12
Interesting. I think that we are still awaiting evidence of the U boat "find" attributed to Mr Hilliam in that linked thread. He certainly has his share of "interesting" theories. In regards to the Mustang my money is still on the Muriwai Beach theory. Debris from the plane, possibly could of washed up there after drifting down and out of the Kaipara, but not the oil slick. Hopefully they manage to fish something up from the riverbed site to prove it one way or the other. It won't be an easy task in those murky waters.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 25, 2016 22:24:07 GMT 12
From what I was told last week they have confirmed the Mustang is there and have some parts up already. I too wonder what the Muriwai bits were, would the tide and currents have taken them that far?
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 26, 2016 0:17:32 GMT 12
I think he is quite well know and has a reputation. The Hilliam Hunter rings a bell.
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Post by angelsonefive on Mar 26, 2016 9:27:55 GMT 12
From what I was told last week they have confirmed the Mustang is there and have some parts up already. I too wonder what the Muriwai bits were, would the tide and currents have taken them that far? Dave, Finding some of the plane would be a very newsworthy event. But I have seen nothing about such, apart from here.
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Post by saratoga on Mar 26, 2016 10:17:29 GMT 12
Awhile ago when talking about the NH tunnels i saw this on the above website ,scans of the P-51 in the river.Seemed to show enough of a picture to indicate 'something' possibly worth salvaging.
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Post by pepe on Mar 26, 2016 10:48:58 GMT 12
Yes, I would have thought finding some solid proof would be reported on pretty promptly. It would certainly add some impetus, and possibly resources, to the recovery effort. Though I do know the local media are a little wary due to past "issues".
The debris, in theory, may have been able to be (eventually) washed up at Muriwai but it seems a bit coincidence that this was also the same area a similar aircraft and the oil slick were reported.
I wish them luck and will be happy to be proven wrong.
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Post by davidd on Mar 26, 2016 18:11:06 GMT 12
Pretty certain that debris from a Mustang (and identified as it could only have come from that type of aircraft, including from memory a wheel) was picked up within a day or two of the crash, at Muriwai. Will have to check my notes. I wonder how they knew to look in a river. After checking on some notes (some I cannot seem to locate!) cannot find anything to support my assertion that a wheel from a P-51 was found, so have now decided I may have been confused by the locating of a wheel of a Piper Comanche (Canterbury Aero Club's ZK-BOO) which was lost out of Auckland in 1958 and was never found. However I look forward to the solving of the mystery of what lurks beneath the waters of the Wairoa River - roll on April 2016. Dave D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 26, 2016 18:54:57 GMT 12
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Post by shorty on Mar 26, 2016 19:59:34 GMT 12
I'm still waiting for some definite evidence/photo/item from the U-Boat he claims to have found. What about the crew from it while we're at it?
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 27, 2016 10:24:41 GMT 12
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Mar 27, 2016 11:34:01 GMT 12
Well that adds some perspective Baron!
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Post by saratoga on Mar 27, 2016 12:10:46 GMT 12
I like the 'possibilties' of these 'well' researched theories, a bit like reading a fiction adventure(Indiana Jones type). I bet tin foil sells well in Dargaville...
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Post by oj on Mar 27, 2016 22:13:21 GMT 12
Yes that 2010 blog item from Baron was interesting. My goodness there are some angry and highly defensive people out there (attack being an effective method of defence, justified or not). I am not too concerned about Mr Hilliam not being formally qualified or otherwise in his areas of interest; experience counts for a lot. There are many people who do a good job and within the trades can turn out beautiful work without having necessarily sought or sat their trade exams. They, by dint of long experience and perseverance attain a level of proficiency that is actually recognised within industry. They are Journeyman. They have made a long journey towards becoming artisans of their work without having sat in polytech or university lecture classes or having qualifications bestowed upon them. There is a place for them and in some vocations (such as astronomy) they receive due recognition when their work is subsequently proven.
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Post by shorty on Mar 28, 2016 8:14:35 GMT 12
Yes OJ, there are journeyman out there who do amazing work, there ability is shown by their results which are proof of what they can do. Mr Hilliam , however, does not appear to be one of them as his results are not evident. I wonder if we will hear anymore of thei current project after April has been and gone or will it be like his U-Boat and 80 Germans be another plot line for The Twilight Zone?
LAME 10677 (originally LAME 1688 [1980]) RNZAF (Airframes)1967-1985
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