Navy vessels to be commanded by women

[Dave Homewood]

Navy vessels to be commanded by women
10:20 am today
a navy warship and an offshore patrol vessel will both be commanded by women.


Commander Lisa Hunn, left, and Lieutenant Commander Lorna Gray. Photo: Supplied / New Zealand Defence Force

Commander Lisa Hunn is to take over the frigate Te Mana while Lieutenant Commander Lorna Gray will lead the patrol vessel Otago.

The changes in command will be formalised at ceremonies later this month.

Women now make up more than a fifth of the navy, but Ms Hunn said when she started only about 10 percent were women.

"The one thing I would say that is a [real] positive out of [being the first] is that other women certainly get to look up [towards] you as a role model and see that other women have achieved things," Ms Hunn.

"And therefore it becomes less of a concern or a barrier to them when they are thinking about what they might like to do."

She said commanding a warship has been her goal since she joined the navy aged 17.

Ms Gray said it was a huge step for her, but if people did their job well they were accepted regardless of gender.

And she said Commander Hunn's appointment was a turning point.

"Being the commanding officer of a frigate is a huge step.

"I've always had Commander Hunn as a role model and hopefully I will be able to inspire some young females that are coming behind me."


The HMNZS Te Mana Photo: Supplied / New Zealand Defence Force

The chief of the navy, Rear Admiral John Martin, said the first woman to command a warship was a trail-blazer and he hoped she would pave the way for more women to consider a naval career.

And he said while her appointment was notable, she was there because of her ability.

"We ... acknowledge that it's a significant milestone for the navy in demonstrating that we are a really good place where every New Zealander can have great career."

www.radionz.co.nz/news/top/332212/navy-vessels-to-be-commanded-by-women

[Dave Homewood]

I love how Radio New Zealand is under the impression that the RNZN has "warships"

[camtech]

Am I correct in seeing pilots brevets on both of these officers?

[Dave Homewood]

They look like the first "Warfare Badges" seen here
militarywings.weebly.com/badges1.html

I don't think they are pilot's brevets. Not sure what they denote.

[lesterpk]

PWO, Principal Warfare Officer badge.

[davidd]

Dave H,
What is the problem with "warships"? The RNZN has operated a very long string of true warships over the years, and still does. However there is a large amount of mental confusion afoot these days on the meaning of the word battleship. To many people, any "warship" is actually a "battleship". In their innocence, they have absolutely NO IDEA what a battleship is, and so not realize that said beasts are actually extinct for all practical purposes.
David D

[11SQNLDR]

And meanwhile - two husbands are at home having to make their own dinners

Okay, bad taste joke sorry. Good on them - richly deserved I'm sure and a big step forward for not just Navy but NZDF

[Dave Homewood]

David D, my impression is our vessels would be better described as peaceships, I think the last time the RNZN fired its big guns in anger would have been Korea, right?

Stewart, given the article refers to both as 'Ms' I probably think it's safe to assume they do not have husbands.

[davidd]

Point taken Dave, but does not detract from fact that our "surface combatant" ships are INTENDED as warships, and are still armed when on operational duty. They have typical warship construction and defensive features, and are operated in a similar fashion to most other modern warships around the world. Admittedly the government seems to be rather protective of them in that they are rarely exposed to hostile navies with modern armaments, but that is their choice, and the crews (including their officers) have to do as ordered by their political masters. There are very few naval actions on the oceans of the world in this day and age, although a certain amount of sabre rattling can be heard from time to time, in all sorts of interesting places, including the South China Sea, or anywhere in the vicinity of North Korea. I presume our warships also indulge in their fair share of "war games", mostly around the Pacific, and this would include firing of their main guns, etc. Would I be right in believing that the last time the RN ships were in real action was the Falklands? (Modern pirates just don't cut the mustard, in my opinion, although arguably this type of conflict can sometimes be quite dangerous, or at least frustrating!)
Dave D

[Dave Homewood]

Were the Royal Navy aircraft carrier fleets and their Harriers not involved in the various Gulf Wars? Also on the 12th of May 2011 Canadian, British, and French ships went into action to repulse a Libyan naval attack on the city of Misrata, according to Wikipedia.

The Navies of today that do go to war are either aircraft carriers or floating missile launchers more than anything else, and the US Navy in particular have certainly seen a fair bit of that action in the recent years in those capacities.

[pepe]

Jun 4, 2017 11:20:49 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

David D, my impression is our vessels would be better described as peaceships, I think the last time the RNZN fired its big guns in anger would have been Korea, right?

Stewart, given the article refers to both as 'Ms' I probably think it's safe to assume they do not have husbands.

Actually, HMNZS Hickleton in the 1966 Indonesian Confrontation was the last RNZN vessel involved in a naval "engagement", but it does not probably qualify as a "big gun" event. It makes interesting reading nonetheless.

navymuseum.co.nz/hmnzs-hickleton-in-action-1966-the-confrontation/

[Dave Homewood]

Interesting, thanks Pepe. This is the first I have ever heard of the Navy being involved in the Indonesian Confrontation. And the first I have heard of HMNZS Hickleton.

[pepe]

Her, and her sister ship, HMNZS Santon, were only in commission with the RNZN for the short period of the confrontation.

A little bit more about them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMNZS_Hickleton_(M1131)

[flyinkiwi]

Jun 4, 2017 11:20:49 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Stewart, given the article refers to both as 'Ms' I probably think it's safe to assume they do not have husbands.

All jokes aside, it's not as probable as you might think in the 21st century Dave. My partner of 20 years still uses Ms, she says its because it means she is her own woman. Not allowed tocan't argue with that.

[rayo]

Jun 6, 2017 8:50:51 GMT 12 flyinkiwi said:

Jun 4, 2017 11:20:49 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Stewart, given the article refers to both as 'Ms' I probably think it's safe to assume they do not have husbands.

All jokes aside, it's not as probable as you might think in the 21st century Dave. My partner of 20 years still uses Ms, she says its because it means she is her own woman. Not allowed tocan't argue with that.

Yep it is extremely common and has been for at least the last 20 years especially among Women who have established a career before meeting their partner to maintain their Maiden names and use the title Ms.

This is for practical as well as philosophical reasons.

[suthg]

PIC of the King Air B200 on Sunday was a woman - well done those women enjoying flight, technology, training, authority, commands etc !!

[htbrst]

Jun 6, 2017 9:23:57 GMT 12 rayo said:

Jun 6, 2017 8:50:51 GMT 12 flyinkiwi said:

All jokes aside, it's not as probable as you might think in the 21st century Dave. My partner of 20 years still uses Ms, she says its because it means she is her own woman. Not allowed tocan't argue with that.

Yep it is extremely common and has been for at least the last 20 years especially among Women who have established a career before meeting their partner to maintain their Maiden names and use the title Ms.

This is for practical as well as philosophical reasons.

My wife is a smart enough cookie to have the choice of a couple of gender non-specific pronouns. Sadly there are still times where she is better to sign things off with only the first letter of her name (e.g. Dr J. Doe instead of Dr Jane Doe) so that it is assumed she is male

She also doesn't appreciate mail address to "Mr and Mrs"

[flyinkiwi]

Jun 6, 2017 11:04:44 GMT 12 htbrst said:

My wife is a smart enough cookie to have the choice of a couple of gender non-specific pronouns. Sadly there are still times where she is better to sign things off with only the first letter of her name (e.g. Dr J. Doe instead of Dr Jane Doe) so that it is assumed she is male

She also doesn't appreciate mail address to "Mr and Mrs"

My sister in law has a PhD but my brother does not, so I call them Dr and Mrs to their face. She loves it, him not so much...

[Dave Homewood]

Lisa Hunn, Royal New Zealand Navy commander
BESS MANSON
Last updated 05:00, September 9 2017


Royal New Zealand Navy Commander Lisa Hunn.

As a 13-year-old Sea Cadet, Lisa Hunn loved fighting a blustery duel with Wellington's weather on the water.

Manoeuvring those big wooden whalers they used to sail on the choppy harbour was like picking up the gauntlet of mother nature and taming that wild old girl.

Back then she had visions of being at the helm of something bigger.


Commander Lisa Hunn is getting ready to command her first crew in Te Mana.

Well, it doesn't get much more colossal than a Royal New Zealand Navy frigate.

As Commander of the 3500-tonne HMNZS Te Mana, she is the first female in the Navy to take the helm of a frigate.

She's eager to set off on her first mission in that new role but she'll have to hang fire while her 18-year-old ship undergoes a "midlife upgrade"

The current equipment cannot deal with today's threats. The technology of the weaponry has changed 100 per cent over the past two decades, she says.

She's not sure where she'll be heading out with her crew of 178 sailors either. That's still being decided. But she's set her sights on the South China Sea.

There's a lot of tension in that region, she says. China is strategically pushing out its interests into the South China Sea, which makes a lot of the other nations quite uncomfortable.

Her role and that of her crew is a lot about defence diplomacy, she says. There are lots of cocktail parties and luncheons in various ports.

A canape-filled diplomacy it may be but with a definite show of force.

"One hundred per cent. [The frigate] looks like a warship, it's got a big gun on the front, people can see what it's all about."

Born and raised in Wellington, there was no immediate military influence in Hunn's life. Her mother was in accounting and her father was a truck driver.

Her only connection to the career she would pursue was her paternal grandfather, who fought as a gunner in World War II.

After her parents split up she gained a stepfather and the family moved to Auckland, where she recalls the "nightmare" of starting a new high school in a new city.

She found her place and her friends with the Sea Cadets, which she had joined in Wellington a year earlier.

Hunn, 46, was in her element with her fellow young sailors.

It was all about rank and structure, like a model navy construct, she says. And the perfect place to go if you want to learn about leadership.

She loved it all – the people, the team building, the personal challenge. Mostly, she loved the sea.

"The sea is just such an unpredictable place. Coming from Wellington where it's so windy, there was this thing about wanting to conquer the natural elements. I loved the wind in my face, having the yacht keeled almost to the point of going over, fighting against the wind. I loved that kind of challenge. That excited me."

At 17 she left the Sea Cadets as a chief petty officer ready for the real deal.

Her mantra for going to sea sounds like an advertisement for the NZ navy. There's a lot of talk about a love of travel, discovering new cultures, trying to understand the world from different viewpoints.

She sailed through the selection process and was accepted in 1990 as one of five women in an intake of 29.

After a year's training she was sent to university, where she gained a Bachelor of Science. By this time she was promoted to the rank of Sub Lieutenant and ready for her first sea-going unit.

Living in such close quarters in a tin can that is the belly of a frigate took some getting used to.

But at least she didn't get seasick. Never has.

It was interesting living in such close confines, she says. "I realised this was going to be my life so you really had to learn to get along with people you might not really like. But everyone ends up getting along. We are a cut of the same cloth. It takes special people to be doing this kind of thing."

Certainly, it took a woman with a strong stomach for sexism to stick it out in the male-dominated climate it was 27 years ago when she signed up.

In the early days male sailors were predominantly a cussing bunch of blokes not at all keen at the prospect of having women at sea, she says.

"Shoving a minority into that environment caused some serious tension.

"There was a sense of 'Why do I have to change my behaviour? Why do these women have to serve at sea?'

"That kind of resentment came from certain personality types but there were some men who welcomed the idea of women at sea. People started being more pleasant to each other, it changed the whole feel of the ship."

Hunn never felt intimidated by the bullish behaviour exhibited by some of her fellow sailors. "I was always bold. My attitude was 'You don't scare me'. I was very focused on doing everything better and I didn't care what people thought of me."

But she was frustrated at some of the older command who she remembers calling her 'dear' or 'love'.

"I thought 'No, I am a professional sailor. Why are you talking to me like I'm your granddaughter?'"

Hunn, who went on to serve as an anti-harassment officer, said there were some who refused to change, those you had to wait out.

"Some who had a fixed mindset would say, 'It's all changed, I can't cope' and I'd be like 'Well, see you later then'."

Thirty years later women going to sea is normal.

She still remembers the bad old days but none of the young ones do.

"Now we all have a code, we respect each other, it's called being professional.

"Nowadays, everybody is quite happy to stand up and call on behaviour if they are not adhering to that code."

Hunn is single – "married to the navy".

In her 30s she made a conscious decision that she wouldn't be a mum. "I had to break it to my mother that there wouldn't be any grandchildren as far as I was concerned."

But despite her marriage to the navy, the workload and pressure took its toll and in 2012 she retired to follow her interest in art.

She studied for a diploma in fine arts and design with the intention of becoming an art teacher. But after two years she changed tack.

"I missed being in the Navy. I missed being a sailor. I wanted to be at sea."

So in 2014 she rejoined and three years later she was promoted to Commander.

The women sailors aboard her ship are excited about her appointment, she says. Being at the helm shows them they can do it too if they just "hang in there and give it heaps".

There are still other firsts that need to be achieved, she says, like the first woman of Commodore rank and the first female Admiral.

It'll happen, she says. One day. One hundred per cent.

- Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz/national/96365269/national-portrait--lisa-hunn-the-commander

[smithy]

Good on them and well done.

There was a woman here (Solveig Krey) who was not only Norway's first female naval vessel commander but also the first female submarine commander in the world back in the mid 90s. According to my wife who met her she was fairly hardcase.