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Post by kiwi285 on Jan 26, 2019 20:44:15 GMT 12
Thanks Ron, it was so good of you to undertake doing all the drawings for that seat. We are going to be quite busy over the next month or so as all on the control surfaces are now ready to cover. Luckily we have just finished getting the A S Cheetah ready for display so that has freed us up again. I am going to take them into a copy place and get them blown up so that I can study them in depth. Once agin a big 'thank you' for taking the time and effort to prepare these drawings.
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Post by kiwi285 on Jan 30, 2019 14:44:53 GMT 12
We finally managed to get the replacement leading edge sheeting folded and now it is nailed into place and will not be coming off any time soon. All we need to do now if finish riveting the sheet to the tailplane rear spar and it is ready to hang on the fuselage. Looking back I see that this item was first put into the jig back in September 2017 for us to start trying to straighten the rear spars which had been bent 50 mm out of alignment - scary amount of time although we had plenty of other jobs to get on with. I have included a couple of photos of the tailplane as it was when we received it just for comparison. I must admit that I am surprised that we managed to get the spar straight but the truth will be revealed when we try and attach it to the fuselage and see how the alignment is. Next job I guess is to start the covering process and rib stitching. 130917 (22) by Mike Feisst, on Flickr 130917 (21) by Mike Feisst, on Flickr 061017 (1) by Mike Feisst, on Flickr 300119 002 by Mike Feisst, on Flickr 300119 003 by Mike Feisst, on Flickr
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Post by kiwi285 on Feb 1, 2019 13:57:51 GMT 12
Today Cal and Lance finished screwing the painted straps over the joins in the turret cupola - over 550 small nuts and bolts required. We took it over and had another fitting with the turret base and they will leave it there now until they finish tightening up all of the nuts and bolts so as not to get any stresses into the structure. Another major task coming to fruition. As one of the photos shows Cal is trying to keep everyone in line - you would have trouble holding a real Browning 0.5 this way without breaking your back. Des and I have just about completed riveting up the tailplane, then it can be mounted on the fuse and get it off our bench. 010219 (3) by Mike Feisst, on Flickr 010219 (2) by Mike Feisst, on Flickr 010219 (4) by Mike Feisst, on Flickr 010219 (1) by Mike Feisst, on Flickr
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Post by planewriting on Feb 4, 2019 13:20:09 GMT 12
I have come across a framed photograph of an Avenger. Pencilled on the back of the frame is NZ2539. The photo hass a squadron letter on the fuselage. Can someone confirm to me if NZ2539 ever wore a squadron letter, if so, what is it? If this is indeed a photo of NZ2539 then it will enhance the Classic Flyers display signage considerably.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 4, 2019 14:37:33 GMT 12
Is it wartime markings Peter? Or postwar?
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Post by planewriting on Feb 4, 2019 17:05:53 GMT 12
Wartime I would imagine. It barely flew post-war. Does someone have a list of all the codes e.g. NZ2506 E of the Avengers and particularly of NZ2539.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 4, 2019 17:44:48 GMT 12
No. 31 Squadron used code letters, I don't think No. 30 Squadron did on their Avengers (although they did on their Harvards and Vincents). But I don't think NZ2539 served with No. 31 Squadron, did it? Wasn't it sent to Fiji?
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Post by planewriting on Feb 5, 2019 7:07:00 GMT 12
Yes, 39 and also 27, were sent as a detachment to Fiji as communications aircraft. I am not sure if either were on 30 or 31 squadron. To make things easier I will add that the letter E is on the photo of the photographed Avenger but sadly the serial only shows NZ and no numbers. The underlying question is; can anyone confirm if '39 ever wore the letter E?
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Post by davidd on Feb 5, 2019 7:23:02 GMT 12
Just a small point, but the two Avengers sent to Fiji were definitely NOT intended for communications duties (although they possibly were from time to time, I think the DH 89s supplied for communications purposes were a lot more pleasant to travel in); the reason they were despatched from NZ was for use as drogue towing aircraft (for RNZAF and Naval forces in area) as well as for weather (meteorological) flights. David D
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Post by tbf25o4 on Feb 5, 2019 10:56:17 GMT 12
Dave, 30 Squadron did use single letter identification on their Avengers at Gisborne. Some further information on NZ3539 from Cliff Jenk's files. NZ2539 C/N 5782 Bu. 48016 (JZ478) After assembly at Hobsonville, it was placed into storage at Rukuhia in February 1944, then issued to Gisborne to replace NZ2534 in March 1944 returning to storage at Hamilton on 25 May 1944. It was issued from No.1 ARU to "Comm Flt NS" on 15 September 1944. Interestingly there were other aircraft around that time that were converted to TT at 1 ASU but there is no indication that NZ2539 was alloted to 1 ASU for conversion. The allotment file states that NZ2539 was alloted from Suva on 15 November 1945 to 1 ASU for Long Term Storage (LTS) with the annotation that along with NZ2527 were to be shipped. the allotment finally taking place on 20 November 1945 with the destination being HB. It's next move was from HB on 21 January 1946 to 1 ASU for LTS (presumably after arrival by ship at Auckland?) Of interest NZ2503 and NZ2539 had guard cables from the arrestor hook to the leading edge of each horizontal stabilizer.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Feb 5, 2019 12:13:19 GMT 12
Just to complete the service history of NZ2539 arrived on ship Peter White and taken on charge at Unit 36 (hobsonville) on 12 February 1944, disposed of by tender to Bennett Aviation on 28 September 1959
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Post by baz62 on Feb 6, 2019 7:37:21 GMT 12
What was the final colour scheme on 39 before being sold? Was it the silver with yellow and black stripes postwar for example. If she spent most of her life in storage I imagine they wouldn't go to the trouble of updating the paint scheme until she was needed? Probably should look at the Avenger thread..... Edit: ahhh all over black and yellow....I knew I should have searched on the Forum first.
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Post by davidd on Feb 6, 2019 12:43:08 GMT 12
From memory, I am fairly certain that 2539 was finished in the "repaint" scheme (a type of blue/grey upperworks, light coloured lowers, exact colours unknown) with the yellow empennage as painted on other TT conversions. However I am relying on memory here, as the other TBF stored at Rukuhia post-war was 2505; one had the overall black and yellow stripes (the "later" wartime TT scheme), the other had the scheme I have attributed to 2539 (what I believe to be the earlier TT scheme); however these "facts" and attributions need checking out for accuracy. Just my luck to have all my photos and books boxed up for the big move, won't be able to get at them for at least a month. Both 2539 and 2505 were supposed to be the attrition airframes in case any of the post-war TT aircraft were written off. Views of both these aircraft have appeared on this forum before haven't they? They were together for many, many years (probably ten, 1949 - 59) and they were visited by photographers from time to time. Whoops, didn't check the edit on above message. I seem to have got the schemes on 05 and 39 reversed! My intentions were pure! David D
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Post by chbessexboy on Feb 6, 2019 13:47:57 GMT 12
So, what did NZ2539 actually do after returning from Fiji? Was it actually a target tug? Did it continued to be used in the communications/transport role that it had done in Fiji? Was it one of the Experimental Aircraft Flight's topdressers? I have yet to uncover the slides I have of her in Havelock North, but I can confirm she was painted yellow when she arrived, before receiving the grey paint applied by the Borough Council.
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Post by baz62 on Feb 6, 2019 14:27:39 GMT 12
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Post by davidd on Feb 6, 2019 15:27:38 GMT 12
Yes Baz, I had not spotted that edit on the end of your previous message prior to typing in my first (faulty) answer, so subsequently corrected my answer by edit too. Having that colour scheme pretty well confirms that it was a drogue tower, in fact either TT scheme would tend to indicate that the aircraft was at some time converted for this role. Interestingly the RNZAF used black and yellow diagonal stripes on its BAT Flight (SBA) Oxfords from early 1943, and only found out in about October 1944 that this type of paint scheme was described in the latest AP 2656A (think I have that number correct, but anyone who knows better, speak up!) but was reserved for drogue-towing aircraft only, so had to stop using this scheme on Oxfords. However they cheated with them a bit, just changed the black strips to red, but by this time practically all the 19 odd TBFS allocated for conversion to TTs (Target Tugs) had been completed at Rukuhia with the earlier TT scheme with the all-yellow empennage. It is possible that the last few had the spirally wound B&W stripes, including 03. However many TT Avengers were turned over to the British Pacific Fleet in September 1945 (which required them for TT duties in Australia), and a published photograph shows 2517 still with its yellow tail being hoisted aboard an RN carrier. So all in all a very confused business to interpret at this late stage. Having said all that, there exists at Wigram some interesting shots of the two TT Avengers at Nausori (Fiji), and both still have their original factory colour scheme (dark blue, pale blue, white), but with the yellow tails, and large letter- identification codes on the engine cowlings (X and Z from memory). David D
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Post by baz62 on Feb 6, 2019 16:39:06 GMT 12
Sorry David my message wasn't trying to say you were wrong but to reinforce your corrected answer. I'd love to see those photos of the Fiji TT Avengers. Must look strange with no turrets but still in the original paint scheme.
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Post by davidd on Feb 7, 2019 0:05:16 GMT 12
Baz, No, I took your reply without any offence, so have no fear on that count, just sorry that I gave that impression. The photos of the two Nausori TBF's have not been published anywhere as yet (at least so far as I know) but they could be seen at Wigram on request, just so long as you can give Matthew a bit of advance notice. They look a little strange with these very large code letters painted on the engine cowling (at least I THINK it was on the cowling - been a few years since I last saw them!) David D
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Post by baz62 on Feb 7, 2019 6:38:42 GMT 12
Yep might have to do just that David. :-)
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Post by tbf25o4 on Feb 7, 2019 9:27:52 GMT 12
David and Baz, interesting that the two Avengers in Fiji had the original colours apart from the yellow empanage, the question then is when did NZ2539 get the striped version as indicated above on return to NZ it went straight into LTS. On the question of allotment for TT conversion as 1 ARU and 1 ASU were co-located there probably wasn't a "paper" allotment done for the conversion task.
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