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Post by shorty on Nov 30, 2017 19:37:26 GMT 12
the name "Vincent" for the Vildebeeste's compatriot, not named for a geographical feature but for Admiral of the Fleet John Jervis, 1st Earl of St Vincent (1749-1807)
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Post by ErrolC on Nov 30, 2017 20:01:49 GMT 12
An outstanding career, which included some prescient exploring!
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Post by madmac on Nov 30, 2017 21:08:01 GMT 12
Its interesting having worked with a former engineer from the South African C47 turbo conversion program (some of those airframes were ex-RNZAF examples). Apparently they found a high percentage of the airframes that went through the conversion program had rouge features, such as one that the wing mounted one whole frame out of position and others with interesting field repairs. The best theory being that the odd airframes tended to be flown less often so lasted longer.
So what oddities if any did the last of the RNZAF fleet have?
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Post by davidd on Nov 30, 2017 21:31:29 GMT 12
The conundrum here is how to honour ALL the rules when conflicting requirements just cannot be reconciled. Here we have a GP aircraft (Vincent) named after an admiral, instead of a General, as required. The nomenclature committee must have been hitting the whisky at this meeting, and perhaps decided to bring this problem to a head, as they only followed the alliteration rule at the expense of all else. Maybe it was a long-overdue protest over the near-impossibility of arriving at a compromise that would please everybody. And perhaps nobody else was really that worried, or did not even notice the inappropriate choice. And Shorty appears to have unearthed another case of dropping an unwanted Sainthood. Another outstanding bit of ridiculousness of the interwar period was the naming of a small fighter as the Bobilink (spelling?), after a completely (to the British public) unknown American songbird, although fortunately this aircraft never went into production. David D
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Post by delticman on Nov 30, 2017 22:18:32 GMT 12
The conundrum here is how to honour ALL the rules when conflicting requirements just cannot be reconciled. Here we have a GP aircraft (Vincent) named after an admiral, instead of a General, as required. The nomenclature committee must have been hitting the whisky at this meeting, and perhaps decided to bring this problem to a head, as they only followed the alliteration rule at the expense of all else. Maybe it was a long-overdue protest over the near-impossibility of arriving at a compromise that would please everybody. And perhaps nobody else was really that worried, or did not even notice the inappropriate choice. And Shorty appears to have unearthed another case of dropping an unwanted Sainthood. Another outstanding bit of ridiculousness of the interwar period was the naming of a small fighter as the Bobilink (spelling?), after a completely (to the British public) unknown American songbird, although fortunately this aircraft never went into production. David D I'm sure it was the old cleaning bloke called Vinny who every night after the draughtsmen and other office staff had left would inspect the plans with great interest. On the above aircraft plan he saw no name in the appropriate box, so he just added "Vincent".
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 30, 2017 23:12:08 GMT 12
Even though it was practically identical to the Vildebeest, the design category that the Vincent was specifically chosen for was as a General Reconnaissance aircraft, does that make a difference to the naming categories?
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Post by davidd on Dec 1, 2017 22:01:21 GMT 12
Sorry Dave, 100% WRONG! The Vincent was designed to meet a specification for a General Purpose aircraft for operations in the Middle East, etc,, and definitely NOT for general reconnaissance - that was the precise job that the original Vildebeest was designed to carry out. Of course the RNZAF used the two types somewhat differently, and regarded them as more or less interchangeable. The original Vincent prototype (conversion of a Vilde) had the interim designation of Vildebeest GP. The only real difference between the two "types", and ignoring the earlier and later styles of tailplane trimming gear, was the operational equipment fitted. David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 3, 2017 17:20:50 GMT 12
Ah yip, sorry, I got mixed up.
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Post by rone on Dec 3, 2017 19:19:47 GMT 12
To state that all the C47-A's were scrapped at the end of WW2 is stretching it a bit. There was the engineless C47-A that sat at Hobsonville until almost 1960. It was then broken up along with the remaining Catalina's, the Seafire, and remaining Mk3 Sunderland. There is a supposed "tragic' story attached to this C47 that was propped up on 44gallon drums. Anyone out there no anything/. This same a/c is seen in the picture posted by Dave Homewood on the 'Hobsonville History Destroyed' thread.
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Post by davidd on Dec 3, 2017 23:12:41 GMT 12
The Hobsonville C-47A was NZ3504 (edited), which was part of the strength of the TTS there, although the school moved to Woodbourne a few years later, but '04 was left behind. I think that '01 (the RNZAF's sole C-47 with 12 volt system), was also at Hobsonville for quite a while too. This is presumably the one with the tragic past, as a civilian instructor was reputedly killed whilst demonstrating the undercarriage mechanism on this aircraft, probably the only one in the RNZAF with the bungee cords for assisting retraction of the undercarriage legs. The other surviving eight were all reduced to components at Woodbourne (stripped of useful components and all equipment), but disposal of the hulks seems to have been a little more protracted; however the sale did go through in the late 1940s or very early 1950s. Exactly who purchased them seems to be a bit of a mystery, and some Board members may remember that some mysterious C-47 fuselages (the number of five or six was mentioned) were in the news about 20 years ago, owned by somebody who wished to sell them overseas. However very little further was heard of them and they seemed to vanish as mysteriously as they re-appeared. Anybody else remember this little episode? David D
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Post by camtech on Dec 4, 2017 10:18:57 GMT 12
Yes, I can remember some discussion regarding these hulls on here somewhere. My notes indicate 8 Dakota airframe sold via Tender 4284 closed 27 Nov 1950 from Disposal Authority 147. Serials 3502, 05, 06, 17, 20, 22, 23 and 24. A side note shows acquired by NZ Metal Smelters.
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Post by shorty on Dec 4, 2017 12:21:39 GMT 12
There was mention of them in an AHSNZ Journal long ago where they were mentioned as being in "North Canterbury", Would take me ages to find the journal reference.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 13, 2017 15:55:02 GMT 12
A third aircraft (NZ2527) was called up from reserve and allotted from Te Rapa to Ohakea (42 Squadron) on 7/10/52, arrived at Ohakea three days later. Was this Avenger actually physically stored at Te Rapa? Or was it stored at Rukuhia and simply on No. 1 Stores Depot. Te Rapa,'s books? If it was stored at Te Rapa, did they store other aircraft there after they closed the storage unit at Rukuhia?
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Post by camtech on Dec 13, 2017 16:24:46 GMT 12
Would have to be at Rukuhia, surely. No airfield at Te Rapa. When 1ASU closed down, the units books were taken over by No 1 Stores Depot.
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Post by davidd on Dec 14, 2017 7:18:26 GMT 12
I concur with Camtech, aircraft was on the STRENGTH of Te Rapa, but physically located at Rukuhia. A parallel circumstance was the case of the 60-odd Mk. 2 Harvards stored at the old Ashburton airfield from about 1945 until the 1952/53 era (perhaps a little later) but were carried on the strength of No. 3 SD at Weedons. There was a permanent (civilian) caretaker at Ashburton to see that the stored aircraft were not molested by unruly civilians, although they were in far greater danger from the collapsing malthoid and plywood hangars that they were housed in. David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 14, 2017 7:52:42 GMT 12
Yes that is what I was thinking, although the Avenger could well have been towed across town I guess. But this indicates that after the closure of No. 1 Aircraft Storage Unit in 1949 there was still a tiny RNZAF presence on the Rukuhia airfield, I wonder if there were any personnel still there or if the Avenger was maintained by Te Rapa staff.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Dec 14, 2017 8:02:22 GMT 12
Dave, I reckon that the stored aircraft at Rukuhia during that period were surveyed on a regular basis by staff from Te Rapa. For the return to operational flying, a team from Ohakea would have come up to work on the Avenger. Most of those aircraft that were earmarked as "reserve" such as NZ2527 would have been properly inhibited (engine) and key instruments removed and stored so would have required a bit of work for regeneration
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 14, 2017 10:05:54 GMT 12
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Post by camtech on Dec 14, 2017 15:03:27 GMT 12
Dave, there appears to be 4 Hudsons parked behind the Daks. These 4 were sold to a Mr Edwards on WARB Tender No 1537, which closed 20 Oct 1947. Serials were NZ2008, '15, '49 and '69. Another 2 Hudsons were also sold to same purchaser via Tender no 3383, closed 2 May 1949. Serials were NZ2035 and'60.
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Post by camtech on Dec 14, 2017 15:07:11 GMT 12
Just had a close look at that photo and note the serial of the closest aircraft is NZ3506, both on the nose and rear fuselage. So it appears that logo may have appeared on a number of different Daks.
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