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Post by davidd on Mar 8, 2023 10:10:26 GMT 12
Full name of de Lange was Theodore Jasper McLean de Lange (usually known to his equals as Theo), and he was born in Simla, India (probably one of the very few members of the RNZAF to have been born on the sub-continent!) He was known as a bit of a practical joker. One of his jokes was his design for an "official" Wigram badge. This was (from memory) a ram's head topped off with a full and generous judges' wig. There are some samples of this badge held at Wigram to this day.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 8, 2023 10:33:15 GMT 12
Did he pronounce the last part of his name in the way that former PM David Lange did, as "de Long-gee", or was it pronounced "de Lonj", as I have heard some with that name pronounced?
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Post by tbf2504 on Mar 8, 2023 16:05:16 GMT 12
I have always heard him referred to by those that knew him as De Lange
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Post by ZacYates on Mar 8, 2023 18:51:34 GMT 12
I have always heard him referred to by those that knew him as De Lange But how was it pronounced? "de Long-gee"? "de Lonj"? "de Lang"?
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Post by oj on Mar 8, 2023 19:42:59 GMT 12
de Lange, Gill and Quill all went on to become Chief of Air Staff, I reckon.
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Post by errolmartyn on Mar 8, 2023 21:01:50 GMT 12
de Lange, Gill and Quill all went on to become Chief of Air Staff, I reckon. Actually none of them became CAS. Errol
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Post by tbf2504 on Mar 9, 2023 8:47:47 GMT 12
The all retired as Air Commodores, not having held the CAS post as an AVM. De Lange was pronounced as DE longe
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Post by emron on Mar 9, 2023 10:03:22 GMT 12
They were all also honoured with CBE for their service. Frank Gill was Deputy Chief of Air Staff 1965-69 and later Minister of Defence 1978-80. Theo de Lange retired as Air Board Member for Personnel in 1966. Stan Quill was Deputy Chief of Defence Staff 1971-74.
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Post by Freighter5910 on Mar 10, 2023 6:56:07 GMT 12
Dad had a tie, that I still have, with a repeating pattern of the rams horns + judges wig on it. That is what I had guessed the graphic was but I never knew the significance of the design.
As far as I can recall Theo de Lange was in charge at Wigram when Dad was there (or at least he was one of the senior officers). I believe Dad spent some time with Theo de Lange also as he mentioned to me that he discussed RNZAF Dauntless operations with him on multiple occasions.
I can dig the tie out and photograph it if it is of interest.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 10, 2023 7:19:48 GMT 12
Yes please.
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Post by Freighter5910 on Mar 10, 2023 7:44:14 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 10, 2023 9:01:19 GMT 12
Lol.
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Post by emron on Mar 10, 2023 12:12:11 GMT 12
Group Captain de Lange was Commanding Officer at Wigram, March 1957 – May 1960. Group Captain Quill followed him in the role.
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Post by davidd on Mar 24, 2023 14:57:44 GMT 12
Group Captain de Lange was also responsible for having his "personal" Devon of the time (as CO, RNZAF Station Wigram) painted in its infamous silver and day-glo scheme (I think it was DH's at Rongotai who actually did the dirty deed); this was the scheme with dayglo fuselage and engine nacelle cheatlines, and also a horizontal flash through the vertical tail surfaces if I remember correctly. Some senior officers were affronted by this scheme, who contended that it made it look more like "a civilian aircraft" (DIS-graceful!) Some kind Board member might be gracious enough to post a picture of this "pretty aeroplane". I think it lost its unique appearance shortly after de Lange's departure from his Wigram post.
Probably also worth stating that de Lange's name was French, whereas Lange's was German, languages with somewhat different "rules" and conventions. It might be interesting to compare Lange's name with the German car designer Porsche, and his cars, which were pronounced with a spoken final "e", although it always sounds more like an "a" to me, so then decided to check on those useful web-sites whereby you can get generally pretty good pronunciations, and they all agree, pronounce Porsche with a final "e", although sounding To me) more like an "er" or sometimes a little like an "uh". No more discussion, go to websites!
We seem to have a bit of thread drift going on here (from Fairey Gordons), but all interesting stuff I think. However de Lange would have flown Gordons at Wigram in 1940 or so when he was serving in the lowly rank of F/O, and probably as a flying instructor too, so there are connections.
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Post by tbf2504 on Mar 24, 2023 15:17:59 GMT 12
From memory when Base Commander he was also the "pilot" of a Devon Having taken over from the actual pilot-in-command and made a heavy landing which resulted in the said aircraft being scrapped?
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Post by davidd on Mar 24, 2023 15:25:38 GMT 12
Paul, I had forgotten that little incident, understand it almost pushed mainwheels through the mainplanes! So I may be wrong about it "losing its unique appearance", it might just have "faded away".
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Post by planewriting on Mar 24, 2023 17:27:25 GMT 12
From memory when Base Commander he was also the "pilot" of a Devon Having taken over from the actual pilot-in-command and made a heavy landing which resulted in the said aircraft being scrapped? I think this the incident (involving NZ1809) "stolen" from www.adf-serials.com.au/nz-serials/nzdh104.htm"Badly damaged in heavy night landing at Wigram following flight from Woodbourne 19 June 1958. Moved to Woodbourne for repair but was converted to instructional airframe INST179 on 15 December 1958 with No.4 TTS Woodbourne".
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Post by davidd on Mar 24, 2023 17:53:30 GMT 12
"Stop Press" - Have discovered that the Devon damaged at Wigram during a night landing ex Woodbourne was NZ1809, 19th June 1958, occupants unhurt, written off, although the nose section was "saved" and became INST. 179 at Woodbourne. On the other hand, the Wigram CO's aircraft with the bright colour scheme was NZ1821, an airframe which remained flying till 1977, and was sold to private interests in Australia. This aircraft was on strength at Wigram from as early as March 1956. However' the flash colour scheme dreamed up by the Wigram CO was fairly short lived, and the aircraft reverted to a "plain" RNZAF scheme following de Lange's departure from that station.
Whoops, beaten to the draw again by Peter, still a few additional titbits included in my summary.
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Post by Antonio on Mar 24, 2023 18:18:49 GMT 12
Here ya go: From the AFMoNZ MUS09001263/4 front view of Devon NZ1821 on the tarmac at RNZAF Station Wigram. Painted in the unique colours of the Wigram Station Commander's aircraft.Sorry about being off topic
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Post by shorty on Mar 24, 2023 20:02:42 GMT 12
Good to know the story behind the colour scheme, I have four photos of it and couldn't get an explanation of it's appearance
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