pvsjetstar
Flight Lieutenant
email: rassie6@optusnet.com.au
Posts: 97
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Post by pvsjetstar on Mar 14, 2018 13:56:29 GMT 12
Noted Denys - I'll amend my history!!
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oldcrew
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 4
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Post by oldcrew on Mar 31, 2019 23:35:13 GMT 12
The Air NZ Training School in Chc had a lot of the "bits" from the aircraft as training aids, control consolr, cable tensionometers undercarriage legs, engine acsings etc. We were told when the rescue boats arived they were very concerned about the "sizzling" coming from the engies but it was only the seawater reacting with the magnesium casing. We also were told that the fatality came about due to an insecure cargo of bungecords!! wrapping itself around him.
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oldcrew
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 4
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Post by oldcrew on Mar 31, 2019 23:57:12 GMT 12
The very sad thing about the Manukau incident , is that the subsequent loss of life may not have happened if it was a commercial flight as it would have had Cabin Crew on board. The reason for this is it was one of the Cabin crews final checks check the nets before going into flight deck to give them the all clear before t/o and landing. The check was to physically tug on the netting on the 2 holds to check they were lashed. If one of the lockers was empty loaders never secured the netting, so it was the cabin crews job to secure and check it. Empty or not for escape impedance reasons. Sadly the Pilots were never instructed to do this. As I guess ferry flight were rare.
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Post by rone on Apr 4, 2019 20:44:11 GMT 12
What this incident proved just how unprepared the airport crash service and all other groups concerned with this type of scenario were. All involved behaved like headless chooks for quite some time. At the time I was involved with SAR on the Manukau Harbour, I have a reasonable knowledge of what played out later. I know personally the contractor who was approached to drag the aircraft ashore. That's when the fun and games started. Cost was not a consideration for sure. At low tide my friend ( who shall remain nameless),was requested to take a bulldozer across the sandbanks (they were referred to as mudbanks), and to attempt to pull in the wreck. The 'dozer was stuck and went under when the tide came in. Plan B was then tried. A wire rope firm supplied literally miles of new drums of wire rope, with a proviso that once it had been near salt water it was non-returnable. First the bulldozer was retrieved and despatched for a complete rebuild. The wreck was then winched in in several pieces. This operation cost a massive amount of dollars. My friend had a bulldozer like new and miles and miles of wire rope, plus got paid very well for his effort. Up until fairly recently I had 3 floatation seat cushions that floated ashore. They have a new owner who is I believe is building a mockup of a section of this aircrafts cabin. I also attended the debrief at the airport and it became very obvious that every person and service involved had learnt very little from the crash and subsequent recovery.
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Post by oj on Apr 5, 2019 19:43:42 GMT 12
To say nothing of the hovercraft debacle where an extremely high-cost rescue craft with the payload and manuoverability of a Welsh coracle was expected to save the entire passenger manifest and crew of a crashed DC10 ....!
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Post by madmac on Apr 5, 2019 21:05:31 GMT 12
Is Auckland AP crash rescue much better now, a forced landing close to heads on an out going tide of a domestic route aircraft (only life jackets required) could be quite messy.
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Post by chinapilot on Apr 5, 2019 23:26:50 GMT 12
It easy with hindsight to castigate the rescue facilities but nobody ( engineers excepted of course) came out of this with any glory. A classic visual approach with both pilots looking out for the runway and no one minding the shop - happened many times before this and still kills people today.
Tragically the Capt was one of the most respected on the F-27 fleet and an absolute gentleman to fly with. The mood in dispatch when I reported later that day was somber to say the least and to depart right over the wreckage was almost surreal.
As ‘oldcrew’ mentions cabin crew may have saved the day as most pilots, my self included, hadn’t done any ferry flights but the impact may have taken the cabin crew as well.
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Post by planewriting on Apr 6, 2019 9:04:32 GMT 12
What this incident proved just how unprepared the airport crash service and all other groups concerned with this type of scenario were. All involved behaved like headless chooks for quite some time. I'm cannot entirely agree with the headless chook comment, well that is if you mean events on the actual day. I was talking to Captain Bill Rainbow about what happened, from his perspective. He was waiting for take off clearance in a 737 and observed the crash through the murk. He called up the tower and asked if they saw that (crash). Apparently they didn't know what he meant. From this scenario it makes sense that there may have been initial confusion or lack of understanding by the emergency services as to what had happened and precisely where. From that there may have been confusion as to what equipment was immediately needed to safely reach the aircraft.
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oldcrew
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 4
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Post by oldcrew on Jun 12, 2019 3:23:28 GMT 12
The very sad thing about the Manukau incident , is that the subsequent loss of life may not have happened if it was a commercial flight as it would have had Cabin Crew on board. The reason for this is it was one of the Cabin crews final checks check the nets before going into flight deck to give them the all clear before t/o and landing. The check was to physically tug on the netting on the 2 holds to check they were lashed. If one of the lockers was empty loaders never secured the netting, so it was the cabin crews job to secure and check it. Empty or not for escape impedance reasons. Sadly the Pilots were never instructed to do this. As I guess ferry flight were rare.
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oldcrew
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 4
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Post by oldcrew on Jun 12, 2019 3:49:35 GMT 12
Regardless if the cabin crew survived the nets would have been secured before landing,,, therefore in this case would have saved lives due to the nets being secured. For non commercial pilots and commercial that have not done ferry flights without the automattic ques of doing standard PA's and interaction with cabin crew can throw the routine of what you do 99.9 % of your career. After two sectors it can easily be related to as Relaxed as you dont have 40 to 400 souls to worry about. I have seen on ferry flights the fO wil click the mic about to do tod announcement and then laugh and realise there is no one listening, throwing out his pre landing routine. Cabin crew have also reported that on extremely light loads they have become relaxed and enjoyed the non hurried descent and been caught out,, eg still in the galley for landing. Therefore my point there should be a different checklist with emphasis on non standard flight implemented. It was slightly introduced into CRM. There is no doubt the rescue and recovery was a shambles.. and once again as posters have said Muldoon blamed everyone else.... i flew over it for the next week watching the mess unfolding. The only good thing is all these years later we have better resoures in AKL and crew awareness, but what about WLg..
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Post by planewriting on Jun 12, 2019 15:23:37 GMT 12
Still on Friendship accidents but a different aircraft. F-27 ZK-NAN had the undercarriage collapse at Woodbourne in 2003. Have a look at aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20030227-1 Can anyone tell me what has happened to the airframe and where it may be located if still in existence? In particular I am interested in undercarriage components. Thanks.
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