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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 30, 2018 23:57:41 GMT 12
Here's some history on that Albatros fighter that came to New Zealand after World War One as a war prize, fromthe NEW ZEALAND HERALD, dated 9 AUGUST 1919:
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Post by davidd on Sept 1, 2018 8:42:40 GMT 12
I think this is the very first mention of this particular aircraft in a newspaper article that I have ever seen. However I have seen the story of how it came to be in British hands. Apparently there was quite a flood of other ex-enemy hardware shipped out to NZ (predominantly field guns and smaller weapons, such as machine guns, etc) and subsequently distributed to various museums, councils, etc. Many of the larger guns were mounted in public parks and reserves(which to my mind is a very odd thing to do, as what was the younger generation to make of all of this?), with perhaps only the smaller items being kept indoors. Somebody in NZ produced a small book on the larger artillery pieces (and other items?), but I have never seen it. Apparently he bemoaned the fact that there seemed to be very few records ever kept of these distributions, let alone any sort of complete cataloguing of them as they arrived in this country. Has anybody on this forum ever seen a copy of this book - it may have been published 20 or more years ago.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 1, 2018 10:39:35 GMT 12
Yes the original reason all these items were brought to New Zealand, several shiploads, was because the Government of the time had promised the creation of a National War Museum - as you see in the article above. However when push came to shove they reneged on establishing the museum. So the items got sent off to RSA's and towns and cities all over sadly. It really is a huge shame the Government never fulfilled that promise. It was also promised again by Labour in 1945 and again ever actually done. Bloody politicians.
I've never heard of that book, I'd love to have a look through it though. I know a lot of the German artillery pieces that had been in town squares (including Cambridge) and outside RSA's were gathered together in 1942 and reconditioned for NZ Army coastal defence usage when it looked very likely that Japan would be coming over the Horizon. I wonder why they were never sent back to their towns after the war.
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jaybee
Squadron Leader
Posts: 122
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Post by jaybee on Sept 1, 2018 13:02:25 GMT 12
There is a book called ‘Great Guns; the artillery heritage of New Zealand (Cooke, Maxwell) published in 2013 that has 34 odd pages devoted to the Great War trophies, plus an appendix that lists the various trophy guns in detail, where and when captured and who it was issued to. The book also has 400 plus pages allocated to describing surviving artlllery by location throughout NZ. Fascinating to read.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Sept 1, 2018 13:27:15 GMT 12
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Post by Peter Lewis on Sept 1, 2018 14:35:33 GMT 12
I have a note that the Albatros came via Adelaide - presumably the towwn in Oz not a ship of that name.
(Thought - could be a mixup between Adelaide and Alexandria?)
When i was a kid in Whangarei there was a large area of unkempt bush behind our place at Morningside, running up to the top of the hill.
We found the remains of an old field gun lying on its side in the bush, not far from the top. The faintly readable markings on it said 'Krupp'.
I was told that it was a WW1 relic that had been bought to NZ and set up there as a sort of memorial.
When WW2 came along it was pushed off the hill down into the bush so that if/when the Japanese invasion came they would not mistake it for an active gunnery post and bomb the area.
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Post by madmax on Sept 1, 2018 14:36:29 GMT 12
I seem to recall reading in NZ WINGS magazine about 30 or 40 years ago that the Albatross was at one time displayed at Nelson.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Sept 1, 2018 14:54:14 GMT 12
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Post by suthg on Sept 1, 2018 15:13:37 GMT 12
Not that it is much help, but I was in contact with a chap who was making a catalogue of all RSA guns and I told him there were two in Tokoroa - a 50mm naval gun and a 100mm towed Howitzer. I do not think I would be able to revive the connection now I have a new hdd and upgraded laptop  He appeared to be in his 40's or so. |
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Post by madmax on Sept 1, 2018 16:01:46 GMT 12
Hi Peter, Ah, yes, I do now recall it was the Bf109 that went to Nelson, not the Albatross.
The grey matter aint what it used to be!
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Post by errolmartyn on Sept 1, 2018 18:30:31 GMT 12
See also photo on page 57 of Ross Macpherson's The History of New Zealand Aviation. Casualties of the German Air Services shows that Uffz Christian Bohensiek (pilot) and Ltn Otto Martin Graf von Schwerin (observer) of Flieger Abteilung 66 were brought down and captured at La Lana, Salonika, on 14 January 1916. Above the Trenches shows that a victory over an Albatros C-type on that day was credited to Lt G W Murlis-Green, flying BE 12 6601, and Lt F G Saunders, flying BE 12 6603, both of No 17 Sqn RFC Errol |
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Post by denysjones on Sept 1, 2018 22:12:36 GMT 12
I'm not sure if this of help etc but I recall my father telling me, as a wee fella, about the aircraft and it being displayed disassembled with the whale skeleton outside of the main museum buildings, this being in the inter-war years.
Likewise I recall somewhere seeing a photo of it out there with the wings off it and the wings hanging on the north wall of the whale enclosure...is that what the photo in MacPherson-Ewing shows(I don't have a copy of same)?
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Post by errolmartyn on Sept 1, 2018 23:32:08 GMT 12
I'm not sure if this of help etc but I recall my father telling me, as a wee fella, about the aircraft and it being displayed disassembled with the whale skeleton outside of the main museum buildings, this being in the inter-war years. Likewise I recall somewhere seeing a photo of it out there with the wings off it and the wings hanging on the north wall of the whale enclosure...is that what the photo in MacPherson-Ewing shows(I don't have a copy of same)? Denys, The photo in THONZA is a close up three-quarter view from the rear port side and taken when the Albatros was on display in the Christchurch Square in July 1943 during a Liberty Loan promotion. The tail is not visible in the photo but the biplane appears to be displayed in complete condition. Ross M credited the image to the New Zealand Free Lance - unfortunately only issues of that paper up to 1920 are presently available for online viewing on Papers Past. Errol |
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Post by davidd on Sept 2, 2018 10:55:43 GMT 12
The late Bob Entwistle (who was in RNZAF 1942 - 45, then with NAC from 1946, finally with Ministry of Works, as an engineer, and who remembered the infamous Fairey Battle at Rongotai), had an interesting tale to tell of the Albatros at Harewood. When the ground was being prepared for the laying of all weather hard runways at Harewood, almost certainly in 1950 (the airport was declared an international airport when these runways, and other facilities were completed in December 1950), they came across something lurking in the rough ground somewhere out on the field, which was finally identified by somebody as the old Albatros from the Canterbury Museum. This identification was presumably made by somebody who knew of this aircraft and/or its local history. There was no engine with it, and according to Bob, it showed all the signs of having just been dumped out there in the rough, doing its best to make itself invisible by literally just rotting away in the weather. He claims it had definitely not been burned, or if it had been set alight, the fire had not done much damage. The Albatros two-seaters were of all-wooden construction, so could easily have succumbed to the sun and rain over the years, particularly as it was already an old aircraft with probable deterioration of the fabric covering, allowing water to penetrate to the interior. Sounds like a plausible yarn to me. And the theory about this aircraft being hidden away in a back room at the Canterbury Museum and never displayed, except in WW2 by the air force, seems to me to be a not entirely accurate. I have talked with several people (all now dead, but including Errol Brathwaite, and John Pierre) who recalled seeing it on display in the Museum, although not always to best advantage, as several report that its wings were not fitted at the time they saw it - this would have been in the mid/late 1930s.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 3, 2018 11:09:25 GMT 12
It's such a shame that aviation people from that generation who grew up devouring the stories of the WWI aviators, from true stories to the Biggles books, allowed the demise of this precious war prize in such a terrible way. I am glad that these days we have a much more sentimental and aware culture where we try to preserve and retell the story of our precious items from the past.
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He appeared to be in his 40's or so.
