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Post by nighthawknz on Dec 5, 2018 17:10:58 GMT 12
The C-17 was being developed in the early '70s, so with the investment into it i would hope it would ,finally, succeed. Not really relevant to this discussion though, as it is no longer available You asked...? Don't they keep crashing? The point is ... and was... every aircraft have teething problems including the C-17 which is now a reliable carrier... the NH-90 had its teething issues.... why is the A400m any different??? It has had it's issues and most have been sorted.But as it goes into use with different air forces around the world I am sure they will find new issues as it gets put through its paces and different uses...
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Post by saratoga on Dec 5, 2018 17:43:22 GMT 12
My comment was in relation to the KC-390, so to give a design time to mature and iron out most of the expensive bugs....we are left with the C-130 or at the outside the A400.
Unless you want to go Eastern Bloc...
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Post by isc on Dec 5, 2018 21:40:35 GMT 12
If you wait until all the bugs are sorted, what ever machine you are looking at will be obsolete, and you start looking at the next aircraft that's 20 years down the track. Look at the B-52, when it goes of line your grand kids will be old men/women. isc
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Post by saratoga on Dec 5, 2018 22:00:27 GMT 12
NZDF has to purchase a proven design...so it doesn't leave much choice currently. If you wait for a few more years, maybe more choice but as the need for replacement is rushing in the field is very narrow.
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Post by horicle on Dec 6, 2018 10:25:51 GMT 12
I am having a bad day. From where I am standing the A400 is not for the R.N.Z.A.F. P-8 all over again. So I guess that is what we are going to get. It is just a matter of when.
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Post by nighthawknz on Dec 6, 2018 15:57:22 GMT 12
So which November was Mark supposed to be making the big announcement? Obviously not November 2018. 2025... lol
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Post by nighthawknz on Dec 6, 2018 16:00:02 GMT 12
My comment was in relation to the KC-390, so to give a design time to mature and iron out most of the expensive bugs....we are left with the C-130 or at the outside the A400. Unless you want to go Eastern Bloc... sorry, there was no quote so I wasn't sure who you were talking to or about... I anticipated the order... won't happen again... ;-)
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Post by macnz on Dec 7, 2018 17:45:07 GMT 12
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Post by snafu on Dec 11, 2018 3:49:49 GMT 12
indeed, there comes a time that no matter how good the service maintenance an oversight will bring down a plane. It appears to be a symptom of lack of budgetary control trying to do more with less which places stress on the process, and that has been NZ defence case for so many years wanting more with less.
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Post by machina on Dec 18, 2018 18:31:47 GMT 12
Anybody heard anything on this?
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Post by beagle on Dec 18, 2018 21:15:47 GMT 12
Santa ain't coming with the goodies this year. I am sure they are waiting on the capability report which probably has changed in recent times with the climate change writings in the media recently. Thinking they are having a good hard look at what is going to happen, which stated in the media reports that more and more pacific nations are going to be hit with climate change, weather disasters etc so we are going to need to respond more. Depending on what they are thinking, they might just look at swapping the H's for J's in the very near future, and look at the A400 for strategic next decade. Only thing is, if no more orders for the A400 come, there will be a time for Airbus to say, hey, we have to stop here, last orders at this date, maybe some white tails and that's it.
We could have had 2-3 C17 with almost FOC by now if they hadn't mucked around.
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Post by saratoga on Dec 18, 2018 21:42:49 GMT 12
'probably has changed in recent times with the climate change writings in the media recently' . Going with the fantasy climate theme....I've always thought we should go back to flying boats, i guess Shin Meiwa here we come...and we could save a heap by getting extra ones instead of P for pricey P-8.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 18, 2018 22:48:21 GMT 12
The government has been looking at climate change and Hercules replacement since the last Labour government. They never seem to make any progress on either and both situations just get gradually worse.
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Post by macnz on Dec 19, 2018 0:05:34 GMT 12
Thinking they are having a good hard look at what is going to happen, which stated in the media reports that more and more pacific nations are going to be hit with climate change, weather disasters etc so we are going to need to respond more. Depending on what they are thinking, they might just look at swapping the H's for J's in the very near future, and look at the A400 for strategic next decade.
Agree Beagle. Guess it will be a case of what's available and by when.
- C-130J standard are more readily available because the C130J-30s are becoming more popular. i.e. RAF have been steadily disposing of their fleet of C130J 'shorts' since 2016.*
- meanwhile Spain has 27 A400Ms ordered but has decided 13 are surplus to their needs, so the Spanish defense authorities have got approval from Airbus to sell the surplus products/slots to other countries.** They are swapping 4-6 A400s to South Korea as part of buying 34 KT-1 basic trainer aircraft and 20 more T-50 trainer jets. Airbus should also have some capacity with Germany having ordered 60 A400Ms but renegotiated their order to 53 recently.
A nice scenario, would be; (1) MOD budget under urgency 4x C-130Js in B2019-B2021, getting them fast-tracked for delivery in 2021 or early 2022. Maybe source from the RAF? unless NZ willing to pay LM a premium to pinch production slots in 2021. Also assuming training certification for; pilots, load masters, and maintainers can be expedited within 18 months and similarly Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency approve the transaction in 2020
(2) start negotiating an order with Spain for 3x A400s for delivery between 2024-2026, plus maybe 1 option order with Airbus in 2030. 2020-2024 will allow training to take place and infrastructure to be built over 4 years, while the initial capital acquisition of the airlifters can be spread across budget years 2022-2026. The best part no DSCA needed! Once NZDF confident supply chain established and airlifters are FOC (2028) then RNZAF can pitch to exercise option order in 2030 - hopefully for a next gen version.
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Post by conman on Dec 19, 2018 12:24:55 GMT 12
'probably has changed in recent times with the climate change writings in the media recently' . Going with the fantasy climate theme....I've always thought we should go back to flying boats, i guess Shin Meiwa here we come...and we could save a heap by getting extra ones instead of P for pricey P-8. They have a very impressive short takeoff performance could easily operate them out of lakes , plus Japanese reliability , would be great for EEZ patrol you could land near an offending vessel and offload a squad of operatives in a RIB to intercept and inspect
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Post by beagle on Dec 19, 2018 20:38:59 GMT 12
Thinking they are having a good hard look at what is going to happen, which stated in the media reports that more and more pacific nations are going to be hit with climate change, weather disasters etc so we are going to need to respond more. Depending on what they are thinking, they might just look at swapping the H's for J's in the very near future, and look at the A400 for strategic next decade. Once NZDF confident supply chain established and airlifters are FOC (2028) then RNZAF can pitch to exercise option order in 2030 - hopefully for a next gen version. [/div] [/quote] new generation version ? 4 turbofans
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Post by horicle on Dec 20, 2018 10:38:54 GMT 12
If they pick the right turbofan engines they will only need two. Oh! Wait a bit. It has already been done. Realisation. Is that a picture of it on your post.
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Post by saratoga on Dec 20, 2018 16:48:59 GMT 12
Not until it is a proven design, NZ can never be a launch customer for new model platforms. The only new stuff we jump onto is social engineering and that will ultimately be the demise of NZ as a nation.
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Post by snafu on Dec 20, 2018 17:59:18 GMT 12
Not until it is a proven design, NZ can never be a launch customer for new model platforms. The only new stuff we jump onto is social engineering and that will ultimately be the demise of NZ as a nation. Well technically you were the launch customer for the H model
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Post by saratoga on Dec 20, 2018 18:06:27 GMT 12
E +, 50 years ago.
Govt/MOD policy is 'proven design',otherwise we can end up with the Simpsons monorail!..or NH90. Just recall the fun we had with the Aermacchi's, that was a proven design with new mod engine teething problems.
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