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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 21, 2018 12:32:25 GMT 12
Very occasionally you come across photos of New Zealand airmen wearing the lemon squeezer hats more associated with the NZ Army. I just found this one for example, where three Air Gunners in the Middle East are wearing them. This was published in the New Zealand Herald on the 7th of November 1942, and the caption read, "New Zealand air gunners on a Middle East station, from left, Sergeants A. Garfath, Wanganui, C. Gilbertson, Palmerston North, M. Hopkins, Greymouth." Wondering what the aeroplane is, I thought perhaps a Hudson but not sure.  |
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Post by davidd on Nov 21, 2018 12:52:43 GMT 12
Could be a Maryland, judging by the location of the small square window above lemon squeezer of left hand airmen, but I stand to be corrected. However the prop is a Hamilton Standard Hydromatic, and engine is probably American too. The Hudson's cockpit was probably further forward than that of a Maryland, but really needs checking out further. But as you say, very unusual to see lemon squeezers on RNZAF airmen - I have never noticed this item used by RNZAF before - perhaps I haven't been looking hard enough. Possibly a more comfortable alternative to the dreaded "Pith" helmet which was official issue in hotter parts of the world.
Incidentally, A Garfath would be A F Garfath (embarked NZ 6/1/41 per Empress of Russia for Canada). The other two embarked on AWATEA 27/2/41, being C H Gilbertson and I presume A L Hopkins (no M Hopkins of RNZAF known to have embarked in NZ WW2). All three embarked as trainee wireless operator air gunners for Canada, but Hopkins never returned to NZ, he was killed in a disastrous landing collision in Egypt returning from air operations with 24 Sqdn, SAAF (Bostons) on 2/8/42. And I don't think the aircraft in photo is a Boston either - again, cockpit too far back. Anyway, by the time that photo was published, Hopkins was deceased. I suppose this sort of circumstance was not uncommon, although you think they might have mentioned this fact in caption.
David D
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Post by angelsonefive on Nov 21, 2018 18:55:15 GMT 12
I think we can rule out the Boston which had a tricycle undercart, while the plane in the picture seems like a taildragger.
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Post by saratoga on Nov 21, 2018 19:48:45 GMT 12
I reckon its a B-25 Mitchell.
The position of the window relative to the engine is good,the square section fuselage and the shape of the window.
Looks to me to be a tricycle undercarriage going by the level angle of the fuselage.
Both the Maryland and Baltimore had rounder section fuselages and the engines were forward of the cockpit.
Boston is also a possibility except they had more glazing on top, unless the cockpit top s opened.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 21, 2018 19:53:58 GMT 12
If that is the correct Hopkins David then he died three months before this photo was published, which would have been a but insensitive of the Herald. Usually if they published a photo of someone who'd been killed since it was taken they usually noted as such.
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Post by pjw4118 on Nov 22, 2018 19:01:27 GMT 12
I have seen quite a few photos of Lemon Squeezers on aircrew all from the Middle East. Uniforms seem to be mixed at times. The following of Roy Montrowes crew on 148 Sq.    Evan Williams flew with a 178 Sq in Italy and they were Army Kit for warmth as no RAF jackets/coats were available.   And the most unusual mix was Roy Brinsden from 75 Sq once he joined the Army  I woner what other mixed uniforms were worn |
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Post by davidd on Nov 22, 2018 19:29:04 GMT 12
I'm an idiot. I have known for several years that all RAF Marylands appear to have been factory-equipped with Curtiss Electric props, so that photo is highly unlikely to be that type of aircraft. So I am gradually coming around to believing this aircraft could be a Mitchell (B-25), although judging whether it is a nose- or tail-wheel aircraft is not that easy, with no reliable horizon in background and the photograph taken at a low angle like that. Unfortunately we do not have many clues to assist in identification so we have to work with what little we have.
David D
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Post by davidd on Nov 22, 2018 19:35:44 GMT 12
The advantages of the lemon squeezer would include the relatively wide brim, which must have been a great relief as the sun climbed higher into the sky - the normal RAF-type field service cap had no answer to that!
David D
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Post by saratoga on Nov 22, 2018 19:56:50 GMT 12
Looking at the angle of the brim on the first guys hat, i would say the top of the fuselage would be fairly level,indicating a tricycle type undercarriage...unless he was leaning over.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 22, 2018 20:07:21 GMT 12
Great photos peter, and nice to see the RNZAF cap badge on the lemon squeezer.
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Post by pjw4118 on Dec 2, 2018 16:31:33 GMT 12
At Roys feet in the tent seem to be German trophies , helmet , bayonet and pistol along with the empty beer bottles.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 2, 2018 17:46:00 GMT 12
That Jerry can also looks to be the German type.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Dec 2, 2018 18:49:02 GMT 12
I have seen quite a few photos of Lemon Squeezers on aircrew all from the Middle East. Uniforms seem to be mixed at times. I woner what other mixed uniforms were worn Like the Air Force, the Royal Navy had difficulty getting uniforms in the Mediterranean so they utilised available Army uniforms. The Royal Navy included several members of the RNZNVR who were skippers of coastal forces MTB and MGB. There are several pictures of these guys wearing Army uniforms like this one. I'm not suggesting any of these in Army uniforms are Kiwis just a general photo although I will try and find one with Kiwis identified in the coastal forces books I have.  |
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