construction numbers and id's of Harvard IIs (NZ900 series)

[bennot6]

Hi forum readers,

Have a large database with Harvards/Texans and predecessors. Always trying to get more details, always trying to find out if there are any discrepancies, and why these (might) exist. The RNZAF has been using a lot of Harvards. And many of those still survive.

I have noticed, already many years ago, "conflicting" data for the early Harvard IIs from the NZ900-serial range. However never had this addressed, so bringing it up (finally) now.

NZ901/NZ919 are reported to have construction numbers 66-2694/66-2712. However the very same construction numbers are also mentioned for RCAF 2961/2979. Some of those ending up in France and Turkey; purchased from Canada. What's right?

NZ922/NZ932 are reported to have construction numbers 66-2735/66-2746. However the very same construction numbers are also mentioned for RCAF 3002/3013. Some of those ending up in France and Turkey; purchased from Canada. What's right?

NZ937, NZ939, NZ941 are reported to have construction numbers 66-2750, -2752, -2754. However the very same construction numbers are also mentioned for RCAF AH187, AH190 and AH191. One going to France, one going to Turkey; purchased from Canada. What's right?

Any feedback, comment, idea's are most welcome. Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Benno Goethals, The Netherlands 

   

 

[davidd]

Do the Canadian examples mentioned actually include the "66" prefix to these numbers? Something is seriously wrong somewhere, although I would have thought that, at least originally, all such aircraft would have their own maker's plate affixed somewhere to the airframe, including maker and factory, and even the date of manufacture. Of course over time, maker's plates can get stolen or deliberately removed by their operators for reasons of their own. Did not the Canadians remanufacture/upgrade (to Harvard IV, or T-6G specification) large numbers of Harvards in the mid-1950s for supply to Allied (NATO) air forces? There has to be an answer out there somewhere. The early aircraft which came to New Zealand were manufactured in 1941, and had the NZ serials already applied (on rudder, also underwing I think) when received here, and the entire aircraft were painted in a very glossy yellow paint. Instead of the later horizontal tube mounted through the rear fuselage on which could be mounted (externally) the balance weights, these early aircraft had quite different weights mounted concealed at forward base of vertical fin, with a tiny plexiglass "window" for the purposes of checking its presence or otherwise. However it seems that the more obvious external weights were preferred for reasons of safety. There were very many other detail differences too of course, including rear canopy, exhaust pipe, etc, etc, including many which could not be seen externally. They also had the S3H1 engines (manufacturer's designation) rather than the military spec R-1340-AN-1 type which was built in large numbers, although the differences in these would not have been great. Just my immediate thoughts on your problem. Many of the NZ aircraft from this series (NZ901 to 1005) survived as complete aircraft up until 1959 at least, although only one or two had ever flown after September 1945.
David D

[tbf25o4]

Interesting David. From the AF380 Harvards 901-920 have sequential construction numbers from 66-2694 to 66-2713. Seems a rock solid listing and like you perhaps the Canadians "realocated" serials/c/n when they upgraded their fleet.

[curtiss]

I have the data plate from NZ969 (76-3826), which is a NA model 76, not 66 as per the earlier Mk II Harvards. Interesting that the plate has the "serial block" stamped with AJ856. The NA serial is not on the plate.

[Peter Lewis]

AJ856 was NZ969's British serial allocation.