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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 16, 2019 15:58:25 GMT 12
How many New Zealanders flew jets (Meteors, Me262's or others) during World War Two or in the immediate period after the war, up till when the RNZAF received NZ6001 in January 1946)?
I know of the following:
S/Ldr Robert Maxwell 'Bob' McKay who went on the be chief pilot and instructor on NZ6001, had flown Meteors in the RAF
Warren Edward Schrader who was CO of No. 616 Squadron RAF on Meteors
Flight Lieutenant C. Davis of Point Chevalier was flying Meteors with No. 74 Squadron RAF in 1945
Flight Lieutenant W. Warwick of Palmerston North was flying Meteors with No. 74 Squadron RAF in 1945
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Post by errolmartyn on Jul 16, 2019 17:17:04 GMT 12
Another 74 Squadron Meteor man was NZ2451 Flt Lt Leonard Miller, who was killed flying one in Dorset on 2 Jan 46. He had been with 74 since August 1945.
Errol
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 16, 2019 18:51:50 GMT 12
Thanks Errol.
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Post by angelsonefive on Jul 16, 2019 19:15:56 GMT 12
Another 74 Squadron Meteor man was NZ2451 Flt Lt Leonard Miller, who was killed flying one in Dorset on 2 Jan 46. He had been with 74 since August 1945. Errol Flt Lt Miller was flying Meteor Mk III s/n EE335. He made a run over RAF Warmwell and pulled up into a vertical climbing roll during which the aircraft entered cloud. It emerged from the cloud in a dive and crashed on the airfield. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 16, 2019 19:39:08 GMT 12
I just remembered Group Captain George Ernest Watt, who was connected to Cambridge, NZ, was a pilot in the RAF and he worked on jets from 1941, becoming Deputy Director of Turbine Engines from 1944 till 1947. He was working alongside Sir Frank Whittle and the pioneers of the jet engine. Does anyone know if he was actually flying jets during these development days? Here is his page on my site: www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/George_Watt.html |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 16, 2019 21:45:04 GMT 12
As a small aside to the comment above on George Watt, I just found that there was another Kiwi working with Whittle on the development of the jet engine according to this article!
Ex-New Zealander Designed Engine For First Turbocar
AUCKLAND, April 18
Mr. Francis Robert Bell, who was born and educated in Auckland, designed the engine for the world's first turbocar, announced and demonstrated in Britain last month. This was stated by his father, Mr. F. H. Bell, Thames, yesterday.
The British technical press is hailing Mr. Bell as “a brilliant New Zealand turbine specialist.” The gas turbines he has designed for the Rover Company, Limited, of Birmingham, has already aroused the keenest interest among engineers and motor manufacturers the world over, and drove the experimental car at speeds approaching 90 miles an
Mr. Bell, who is still less than 40 years of age, is the eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. F. H. Bell, now of Thames. He has worked with the Rover Company since the end of the Second World War, and is unlikely to be able to spare time for a visit to New Zealand for some years, as be is fully occupied in perfecting an engineer’s dream, the application of the gas turbine to a motor-car.
Some years ago be left for Australia, where he worked in various engineering concerns, and before the Second World War began he went to England. "There he joined a company interested in steam driven buses. When the war came he was with a concern engaged in making parts for Rolls-Royce aero engines, and later the Rolls-Royce Company engaged him and he served in that company’s jet engine design department until the end of the war. In this work he knew Sir Frank Whittle, the famous jet engine designer. After the war he went to the Rover Company.”
Engineering is in Mr. Bell’s blood. He is the son and grandson of engineers and both his brothers are in the same profession. His father is a consulting engineer associated with A. and G. Price, Limited, Thames.
GISBORNE HERALD, 20 APRIL 1950
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Post by flyinghilly on Aug 23, 2019 17:27:04 GMT 12
I see that you mentioned Warren Schrader in your original post - I met him a few times and he told me a great story about how he had flown a ME262 - its was before the end of the war and he was having a few days off with another pilot and came across 2 Me262s in a paddock. The soldier guarding them told him that two pilots had surrendered that morning and they were in the local jail. Warren Schraeder went into the town and bought one of the pilots back and hd him explain the systems and how to start it etc. They took off in these two aircraft and headed back to the airstrip they had come from - long story short when they came to land the other pilot landed successfully and Smokey couldn't get his front wheel down despite throwing the aircraft around a lot. In the end he landed on the main wheels and when the front of the aircraft dropped it scraped along the ground causing it to catch fire. Johnnie Johnson was in charge of this base and came out and delivered a very colourful speech.
I did some research and discovered that this aircraft is still in a museum in Denmark
I suspect that Smokey was the only NZ airman to fly a ME262 - he told me that the speed of it took his breath away and it was a delight to fly.
Smokey was promoted and put in charge of the first squadron of jets in the RAF - his instructions were to" engage with the German jets and see if he could shoot a few dow"n - he told me that they shot up a few on the ground but as the performance of the Meteor was nowhere near the performance of the 262 so they avoided them in the air.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 18, 2022 19:29:27 GMT 12
The "E.G." Watt is in fact George Ernest Watt as detailed above:
ALL READY AT HERNE BAY
ATTEMPT ON AIR SPEED
RECORD NEW ENGINES FITTED TO METEORS
(Special from A. W. Mitchell, N.Z.P.A. Special Correspondent.)
LONDON, August 13.
On the eve of Britain’s attempt to establish a fresh world speed record with Gloster Meteors, Group-captain E. G. Watt, A.F.C., formerly of Auckland, who has been in control of the research and development of the Rolls-Royce Derwent jet engines, is confident that the objective of 1,000 kilometres per hour, or 625 miles an hour, will be attained.
“The two new aircraft and special engines have now arrived at Tangmere,” he said, “ and we have taken all possible steps to see that they are in perfect order. The engines have come through all the tests very well, and now we only want the right weather conditions.”
MAY REACH 630 M.P.H.
Watt, who is in constant communication with Group-captain E. M. Donaldson, D.S.O., D.F.C., commanding officer of the R.A.F. high-speed development flight; hopes to see a new record made at Herne Bay. He is in London engulfed in work. “It is quite possible that we may get a speed of 630 miles an hour,” said Watt. “ With the new material used in the engines allowing them to work at a higher gas temperature, thus delivering 42,000 lb thrust in each engine (which is equivalent to 12,000 horsepower in the piston engine driving the propeller), this speed is a probability.
“In some respects, however, our data is limited. We do not know with any degree of accuracy just what the shape of the drag curve will be after the aircraft exceeds about 610 miles an hour. Part of the drag is due to the friction of air on the aircraft, and normally this increases sharply at high speed. One way to get some idea of what we mean by profile or 'friction’ drag is to compare the action of an aircraft flying at speed with that of a submarine pushing its way through water. The faster it goes the more resistance it meets. In addition to 'friction’ drag, we also have problems of compressibility and shock waves. It is difficult to define, these terms simply in a few/words.
AIR RESISTANCE.
“ Briefly, one way of looking at the problem,”, said Watt, “is to assume any object travelling at a speed to send a 'warning' ahead of it. This results in the air parting and smoothly flowing round the object. The nearer you get to the speed of sound (1,100 feet a second at sea level), the less ‘ warning’ there is' to the oncoming air. Thus the object meets greater resistance because on some parts of an aircraft sudden shock waves are produced. These can actually be photographed in highspeed tunnels by employing special techniques. They look very much like an abrupt bow wave of a ship ploughing through water. So that, while we know pretty well what the performance of the engines will be, our data on the aero-dynamic side are limited, and we are not quite sure what the effects will be and to what extent the Meteors will be checked once they reach about 1,000 kilos an hour.
CIVIL AIRCRAFT DEVELOPMENT.
“ Going for the speed record,” continued Watt, “ has accelerated to some extent our research and .development work, which means that R.A.F. squadrons will soon be getting aircraft with an equivalent performance of those now used at Tangmere: "It is not likely, however, that the pure jet engine will have a wide application to civil aircraft for some time. For one thing, many advances must be made before civil aircraft will have to be designed, for the purpose. In the interim we are working hard on the development of gas turbines for driving propellers. Gas turbines can cruise indefinitely at 85 to 90 per cent, of their full power, whereas the piston engine figure is about 45 to 50 per cent. We expect, when the first civil aircraft with propeller gas turbine engines appear in the near future, they will cruise at between 350 and 400 miles an hour.”
DISTINGUISHED CAREER.
Watt does not anticipate remaining at the Ministry of Supply as deputy director of turbine engines after this year. He will shortly be employed on other technical duties in the R.A.F. His career in the Air Force has been most 'distinguished. He won his Bachelor of Engineering at the New Zealand University in 1931. and he was a nominee for the Rhodes Scholarship in the same year. A flying officer in the New Zealand Territorial Air Force, he was granted a permanent commission in the R.A.F. as a. university entrant in 1933. His first three years were spent on general duties with a light bomber squadron, followed by two years at the R.A.F. School of Aeronautical Engineering. In 1938 he studied at the Imperial College, London, on the post-graduate course in aeronautics.
During his first year of the war he was an experimental test pilot engaged in the hazardous work of testing “blacking out” and loss of consciousness at high speed. With a Cambridge doctor as observer, he experimented with what airmen know as G (or gravity), and discovered that a pilot who lost consciousness at speed in a tight turn was quite unaware of the fact. One result of his work was that the height of rudder pedals in fighter aircraft was raised. This helped to prevent blood flowing from the pilot’s brain to his legs. As the result of the scientific information he gained, doctors were later able to evolve an anti-G suit. For his work Watt was awarded the A.F.C. Watt’s hobby is rifle and revolver shooting. He won several trophies at the recent Bisley meeting, and made top score for the R.A.F. and Scotland, and was in the King’s Hundred for the third time.
EVENING STAR, 14 AUGUST 1946
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Post by davidd on Jan 19, 2022 7:46:48 GMT 12
Watt was a member of the very first NZAF (Territorial) Pilot Course held in the university holiday periods between 1927 and 1929, at Wigram. I think this course numbered ten pupil pilots, and this was the only "split" course run in New Zealand until a somewhat similar type of pilot (and navigator) training was repeated from about 1952 to 1958, after which Territorial aircrew vanished.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 19, 2022 7:50:30 GMT 12
He seems to have been a truly remarkable pilot. It is a shame he is not more well known.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 24, 2022 22:03:12 GMT 12
I just came across this article from the Press newspaper dated 7th of September 1949. it is from four years after the war but it made me wonder when Victor de le Perrelle first started to fly jets, not in wartie but clearly one of our early jet pilots.
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Post by pjw4118 on Feb 6, 2022 13:39:59 GMT 12
S/L Graham Mandeno (DSO DFC*) was closely involved in the early RAF jets. After tours on 58,156,139 Squadrons he was posted to the DDTE unit of the Minisytry of Supply. He completed a course at PowerJets Lutterworth in January 1945 then became an assistant and pilot for G/C Watts the DDTE. He finally flew the Meteor in August 45 part of preparing EE454 for the World Speed Attempt.  _AAA2614 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2594 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2595 - Copy by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2641 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2645 - Copy by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  CCI06022022 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr He also inspected 616 Squadron in January 1945 for Power Jets, 335CU at Colerne and later 616 at Lubeck in June. His report includes comment from W/C Schraeder abut the Me262. He visited many of the German turbo jet plants in June 1945 and some of the 10 page report is shown below  CCI05042017 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2649 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2631 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2632 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2651 - Copy by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2662 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2663 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2664 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2666 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr  _AAA2667 by Peter Wheeler, on Flickr |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 6, 2022 18:09:48 GMT 12
Really interesting Peter. And he was another Waikato chap. Te Awamutu in his case I believe.
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