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Post by Dave Homewood on May 11, 2008 15:26:06 GMT 12
This is really a pre-war, wartime and post-war question...
Yesterday when we were at Hobsonville, my mate Mike and I had a wander around the historic old base. When we were down on the wet apron area where the flying boats would be slipped ashore, Mike asked where they took off and landed from, and whether it was just in front of us on the body of water east of Hobsonville.
I couldn't really answer him. I think that the main alighting area was near Mechanics Bay, where you see photos and film of Empires, Clippers, Catalinas and Sunderlands taking off and landing (alighting). But Mechanics Bay was the operational base for RNZAF flying boats, their day to day HQ as it were.
As the flying boats went to Hobsonville to be slipped for maintenance, did they alight much closer to that base? Or did they use the Mechanics Bay area and then water taxi up and down the harbour?
And what of the smaller flying boats such as the Cutty Sark and the Walri? And floatplanes like the Fairey IIIF's and the Moths? Did they take off and alight next to Hobsonville where they were based? Or did they have to taxi all the way down to Auckland to safely get aloft?
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Post by Peter Lewis on May 11, 2008 17:21:41 GMT 12
Pretty much directly from the Hobsonville launching area. There were three available "runways" from there - West (towards Riverhead) East (towards the city) or North (toward Greenhithe). No upper harbour bridge or main harbour bridge for most of that time, don't forget. When I went for my ATC Sunderland flight, we took off and alighted towards the city (east). Paul Harrison's flying boat book has a diagram of the available takeoff/alighting areas at Hobsonville on page 155. The available runs are also evident from this recent photograph:
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 11, 2008 18:15:33 GMT 12
Thanks Peter. That photo demonstrates it well. I must track down a copy of Paul's book someday.
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Post by sniff on May 11, 2008 20:03:35 GMT 12
I can imagine the Sunderland 'alighting' close to Hobby on the vectors mentioned, but certainly not taking off. I would love to see a pic of Paul's diagram, to confirm the vectors, but I recall from many years ago the designated vectors were bounded by Hobby, Te Atatu, Pt Chevalier, Beachaven, Kauri Point, and down toward Chelsea/ Herne Bay. There were so many variables when flying a boat: Tide in/Tide out, Tide coming in/Tide going out - as well as the usual aviation variables. Surface condition was also a big player - a calm, oily sea made unstick a real probem; there were lots of techniques used to get airborne. Now imagine a max weight takeoff, having to take off down harbour because of the p1zz poor climb gradient (and we havnt even talked about loosing and engine!), a following tide, a tail wind or a slick sea. In short, there were a lot of take-offs aborted after an 8 mile take-off attempt. BTW, do you really think Fred Ladd was first to fly under the Harbour bridge?
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 12, 2008 0:07:45 GMT 12
I guess being a busy harbour, boats were also a danger.
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Post by Peter Lewis on May 12, 2008 19:19:27 GMT 12
In the heyday of the flying boat - late 1940s - the Waitemata (Auckland harbour) would have been a busy place. There were the three sectors for Hobsonville, and also the civil alighting area down by Orakei. This was pre-harbour bridge of course, so as well as the City-North Shore passenger ferries there were also all the vehicular ferries between Devonport and the City. I possess a White's photograph of the Downtown passenger ferry terminal taken just after midday on a Saturday around this era, and there are about nine passenger ferries arriving, departing, loading and unloading at the one time. BTW, do you really think Fred Ladd was first to fly under the Harbour bridge? The memory cells tell me some guy in a Cessna had first go, and ended up in court over it.
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Post by smithy on May 16, 2008 21:11:07 GMT 12
Don't know how much this will add to the discussion but growing up in Parnell we always had the Sea Bee Air Geese coming over, usually very low as we were close to Mechanics Bay. I was always running outside as a nipper to watch them. They were wonderful, Auckland is a far less colourful place without them.
Sniff, my Dad was mates with Ladd, he lived up the end of our street. He was renowned in the neighbourhood for a being a hell raiser. He lost his commercial licence for a time because of it but told my Dad it was worth it!
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Post by stu on May 16, 2008 21:17:05 GMT 12
www.nzhistory.net.nz/timeline/30/330 March 1967 Fred Ladd flies plane under Auckland Harbour BridgeOn his last day flying for Tourist Air Travel in March 1967, Fred Ladd illegally flew his Widgeon amphibian aircraft under the Auckland Harbour Bridge. He was discharged without conviction for this stunt.
An extrovert personality and a risk-taker, Ladd flew for the Royal New Zealand Air Force during the Second World War before becoming a household name during his years with Tourist Air Travel in Auckland in the 1950s and 1960s.
In 1969 he began an amphibian tourist service in Rotorua and by 1971 had formed Captain Fred Ladd’s Volcanic Wunderflites. He joined Air Central in Taupo in 1976 but grounded himself the following year because of dizziness. Then aged 68, Ladd had 21,109 flying hours behind him. Civil Aviation withdrew his commercial pilot’s licence but Ladd worked hard on his general fitness to get it back. While unsuccessful in this endeavour, he set a number of national records for the over-70s in swimming and became a strong advocate for the rights of older people.
In 1983 he took up gliding, maintaining that ‘flying is a way of life that I couldn’t and wouldn’t be without’. Fred Ladd died in Taupo in January 1989. More about Fredd Ladd here ..... www.dnzb.govt.nz/dnzb/default.asp?Find_Quick.asp?PersonEssay=5L1
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Post by alanw on May 16, 2008 22:05:55 GMT 12
Sniff wrote
I recall my father telling me about a A sunderland heading off toward the what is now known as the North Western Causeway, the harbour was dead flat, so the hull stuck like a vacuum.
The aircraft in question made it about near where the causeway is (roughly) and had to turn around. Thankfully the take off run had disturbed the water sufficiently for the hull to become "unstuck", and the aircraft became airborne finally, heading back toward Hobby
Can imagine what the crew was thinking , (especially fuel wise) if they had a long patrol or flying to Lauthala Bay
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 16, 2008 22:32:03 GMT 12
This was pre-harbour bridge of course, so as well as the City-North Shore passenger ferries there were also all the vehicular ferries between Devonport and the City. I possess a White's photograph of the Downtown passenger ferry terminal taken just after midday on a Saturday around this era, and there are about nine passenger ferries arriving, departing, loading and unloading at the one time. I never realised that there were car ferries in the harbour before the bridge, but it makes a lot of sense. There was also a small ferry that went from Hobsonville down to Auckland and back in the 1940's. No doubt there would have been a lot of fishing boats and dinghies in those days too, as lots of people used to fish for themselves back then before supermarkets. I wonder how they controlled keeping boats off alighting areas. Did the Marine Section police this when aircraft were operating?
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