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Post by shorty on Jun 16, 2008 22:39:21 GMT 12
Has anyone ever got around to compiling a list of fates for the Instructional Airframes? Once they are made Instructional they seem to fall off the face of the earth as far as official fates go. I would love to know of their ultimate disposals.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 16, 2008 23:20:18 GMT 12
That's a good question. Most of them must have been destroyed but how, when etc would be interesting.
Warren Russell's first NZPAF and RNZAF Colours book has a complete list of IA's up till publication date and there won't be too many more to add after that. I'll take a look over that and see if I pick any up still 'alive'.
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Post by shorty on Jun 16, 2008 23:22:57 GMT 12
I'm more interested in what became of the old ones Dave, I'll start compiling a list .
As soon as I can get this damned computer to behave itself. It's getting to be a work of art to post anything!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 16, 2008 23:29:11 GMT 12
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Post by shorty on Jun 16, 2008 23:37:13 GMT 12
I've got the lists of them but most of fate lists them just say converted to INST XXX at ***** and thats as far as it goes.
That could be quite a project.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Jun 17, 2008 12:34:15 GMT 12
The aviation historical society of new zealand published a book some time ago
called NZ military Serials. It has a comprehensive listing for instructional airframes, albiet
needs updating from the mid 1990s
Paul
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Post by shorty on Jun 17, 2008 12:39:06 GMT 12
Paul, the problem is not finding a list of serials, it's trying to find out how they were disposed of when they were no longer required as INST. Official documents don't say so you have to rely on other sources.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jun 17, 2008 12:40:34 GMT 12
Yes that AHSNZ list was compiled by Cliff Jenks. I know, because I helped him with it. Most such airfarmes were eventually scrapped (RTP - reduced to produce), burnt (many of the crashed airframes only became instructional for fire practice) or in later days given to museums.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Jun 18, 2008 9:09:17 GMT 12
Shorty,
indeed you raise a good question.
If they were RTP or RTS at unit level very little chance of accurately identifying when unless it is recorded in the unit history or by someone who was there at the time.
The other option is to troll through all of the Government Stores Board Tenders (GSB) for the years around when the rumour mill says individual or lots of aircraft were disposed.
These records are sometimes still available, mainly from private sources.
Paul
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 18, 2008 10:21:08 GMT 12
What happens to the section inventory records? I assume every single instructional airframe will have been allocated to the inventory of whatever section or school was using it. I recall that a periodicly scheduled check and count of every item on an inventory was made for good housekeeping and paperwork was filled out. Such paperwork would help pinpoint disposal dates and possibly methods if it was still extant, wouldn't it?
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Post by shorty on Jun 18, 2008 10:32:28 GMT 12
Thats true, the Te Rapa TBF was on my inventory (with the engine as a seperate item) but what becomes of the cards when the item is struck off the inventory? I couldn't really imagine them being kept (you would have heaps of them for things like spanners, beds, fry pans etc!)
Quite possibly all that might be on the cards is a F675 number and date.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jun 18, 2008 12:22:41 GMT 12
Section Inventories as we all remember them no longer exist. They were done away with in the mid/late 1990s. There is a central asset register for larger value assets, but tools etc are no longer controlled or monitored by the Suppliers.
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Post by camtech on Jun 26, 2008 12:53:22 GMT 12
Great to hear some sense has prevailed in moving away from section inventories - they were the bane of my life as an inventory holder.
I do have an old list somewhere of instructional airframes and their origins and some disposals. A number were sold as part of the normal sale of surplus aircraft, by Government Stores Board tender. As mentioned, a number were also broken up by the user units as beyond any value. I know that at least one aircraft was returned to service after a period as an instructional airframe.
As I have just retired, I am hoping to spend some ime and digitise a lot of my information, so it can be more readily shared.
I note a piece in the latest RNZAF News that within two years, the only place we will see a Devon will be in a museum, and that "future technicians will train on a mix of 10 modern turboprop aircraft and helicopters, nine additional turbine aircraft engines, a glass cockpit trainer and computer based training packages" Guess we will have to wait to see which modern turboprop aircraft and helicopters wil be deployed into this role!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 26, 2008 13:09:13 GMT 12
That's a lot of proposed instructional airframes, much more than was at 4TTS in my days, and yes all four schools have now combined but other than 4TTS was just 2TTS's two Devons so they must be planning a major expansion of technical trade recruits.
I wonder what will happen to the Devons. I wish they'd keep one for the Historic Flight and get it flying. Bit unrealistic I suppose but it could be used for VIP transport when times are tough.
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Post by camtech on Jun 26, 2008 13:46:46 GMT 12
Just had a look at some photos I took while at Woodbourne in January 2005, at a reunion.
Aircraft featuredinclude the 727 (7272), a Sioux (was Inst 221, not sure of serial under new system), an Iroquois , Strikemasters 66, 75, 76 and one other (again I note 65 and 74 allotted to TTS), Devons 06, 13, 19, 22, plus at least one other (I note that 2TTS had 05 and 06, so assume other is 05). So there is at least twelve aircraft currently.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jun 26, 2008 15:20:01 GMT 12
I note a piece in the latest RNZAF News that within two years, the only place we will see a Devon will be in a museum, and that "future technicians will train on a mix of 10 modern turboprop aircraft and helicopters, nine additional turbine aircraft engines, a glass cockpit trainer and computer based training packages" Guess we will have to wait to see which modern turboprop aircraft and helicopters wil be deployed into this role! Yes I read that with some surprise also. The future doesn't look too hopeful for the Skyhawks does it! |
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Post by tibor on Jun 26, 2008 15:47:56 GMT 12
The last I heard (in April) was that they were going to move the Boeing back outside (good thing too, it was ridiculous to put an aircraft of that size in the 4TTS hangar) and that they were looking to get King Airs, or similar, to do the training on. I believe there was a team already investigating purchase of these frames.
The majority of the instructors want to get some Skyhawks in the hangar as well, but it doesn't look likely.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 26, 2008 23:05:33 GMT 12
Just had a look at some photos I took while at Woodbourne in January 2005, at a reunion. Aircraft featuredinclude the 727 (7272), a Sioux (was Inst 221, not sure of serial under new system), an Iroquois , Strikemasters 66, 75, 76 and one other (again I note 65 and 74 allotted to TTS), Devons 06, 13, 19, 22, plus at least one other (I note that 2TTS had 05 and 06, so assume other is 05). So there is at least twelve aircraft currently. In my days they had five or six Devons (one of which had the clear perspex side from memory) and the Sioux replica plus a well patched up cockpit section from a crashed Blue Angel TA-4. They were putting through around 200 or more trainees back then, with basic engineering courses, mechs and tech courses all running there. |
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Post by shorty on Jun 27, 2008 11:05:29 GMT 12
When I was there they had about 8 Harvards, 4 1/2 Vampires and a Devon nose section, plus another 8 Harvard wings in the metal skin section and 2 Tiger Moth wings!Of these only the Devon nose and the 1/2 Vampire and the wings were in 2 hangar, the rest were kept in 5 hangar where the servicing part of the courses were held.
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Post by camtech on Sept 29, 2017 12:19:39 GMT 12
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