Dereck Kain's Spit Mk Vb (Trop)

[tempestwulf]

Morning m'lads

Flicking through Model Aircraft Monthly (MAM - sister publication to SAM & SAMI), I found a picture and caption for Wng Cmdr Dereck Kain's Spitfire Mk Vb (Trop) while based in Egypt, 1944. The descript is below but sorry no pic available but you can use your imaginations, not hard. I've added a few breaks in brackets.

Spitfire Mk Vb, EP312, D.K, the personal mount of Wing Commander Dereck Kain, at Edku airstrip, Egypt 1944.

EP312 was the high polished (get your bottle of Johnsons Klear ) personal mount of Wing Commander Dereck Kain. It was photographed at Edku aistrip, in Egypt, in 1944 (There is a picture in....um...Aicraft of the ANZAC Aces - the Ventura publication whose exact names escapes me, it's at the back). It was specially modified for fast interception and upgraded with six-manifold exhaust stubs and elevators with enlarged horn balances similar to late production Spitfire Mk IXs. The camoflage was the standard Temperate Land Scheme of the late-war period, consisting of Dark Earth and Dark Green upper surfaces in the A Scheme pattern with Azure Blue.

(Here's what's not included in the caption that the picture shows) Spinner is red with standard national insignia. His personal code letter is D.K of small diameter (18" I would imagine, the small type used by Wing Commanders like Edward Mackie's Tempest V & Colin Grey's Mk XIVc). Serial # is 8" size in standard position at rear fuselage (no band). Wing Commanders pendant under front windscreen, rear view mirror (circle or square ) Smaller Arbuk tropical filter.

Is a "b" model btw not a "c" so for 1/48 using the Tamiya Mk Vb should work sweet but you'll need to find the filter as I believe it only has the bulky Vokes, same with thier 1/72.

On the other hand Italeri do a pretty good 1/72 Mk Vb with all 3 types of filters used (Vokes, Arbuke and standard for Home based) and you could cross kit with thier Mk IXc (if you don't have a spares box with the required parts already....which is proposterus to think ye don't :

Hope this will be some motivation for someone and will be a great additions to Kiwi pilots themers. Sounds strange but I think it looks sexy (get a life Brad...get a life) as I have a liking for the temperate land scheme; hence why I repainted my Revell Hurricane Mk Ib (Trop).

Happy modelling from Levin

[Dave Homewood]

Kerry (fockewulf) built a beautiful model of Bill Kain's Spitfire for Bill after he and I interviewed Bill about his amazing career. Hopefully Kerry has some photos of the model, I'll ask him.

[Dave Homewood]

Here is a photo I scanned from Bill's collection of the modified Mk Vb. There are a few photos of it but this is the best one.

[Dave Homewood]

Brad, which issue of Model Aircraft Monthly is that in by the way? And what's the context? Was the article written by Malcolm Laird?

Long ago, must have been about 1994, Kerry and I went to see Bill because Kerry had found out about this amazing WWII fighter pilot who lived in Cambridge (actually just outside on a Fencourt farm). We got his story on tape and Kerry went back and got more on tape. Kerry offered it and the photos to Malcolm for the ANZAC Spitfire book but it's such a big book Malcolm was keen to do a seperate publication. But when he heard the tapes he considered the recordings so poor he decided not to go ahead with it. They sat for years and then when I began my website on Cambridge airmen Kerry gave me the recordings, and I scanned all Bill's photos thanks to his daughter Jenny who I'm friends with. I have been able to enhance the recordings digitally and am slowly transcribing them for the website. It's a huge laborious task but well worth it. Bill learned to fly at Timaru and Wigram and then joined the RAF in 1935. He flew Gauntlets, Hinds, Gladiators and Hurricanes before the war and served with Cobber Kain on Glads and Hurris. They were good mates so the tapes reveal some interesting things about their time together (Cobber's and 73 Sqn's first kill was actual shot down by Bill aided by Cobber, but the pair visited the crash site and Bill decied after seeing bodies strung in trees not to have anything to do with the claim.)

[Deleted]

Bill's plane is an interesting subject to me, of course because I knew bill. I am no expert on Spitfire camouflage so I’m happy enough to be proven wrong. It can be seen in many photos of Trops that it was standard practice to overspray the aircrafts Dark green with middle stone. This usually left the aircrafts serial number as an issue, and easy route was taken with this, mask it off. This left an ugly box around the serial that revealed the original Dark Green/Earth. I believe the interpretation of this photo as being Dark Earth/Dark Green/Azure Blue is based on the dark/light areas on the aircraft being the original way around. From the other photos I have seen of EP312 in Bill’s collection there is no box and the serial number is in a primitive font that looks like it was masked off using strips of tape (see my illustration). This particular photo was unfortunately a reproduction / enlargement made by a friend of the family, who kept the original, the process used was very high contrast which has ruined the images contrast. If you have “Spitfire In Action #39” on page 17 there is a photo of EP464 which is in Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey. My best guess would be that the aircraft had a complete respray. The photo of EP312 was taken quite late in the war at a stage when Vb were not considered front line, and she was in the desert where sun and sandblasting would destroyed the paint. The general state of the aircraft was good showing only some fuel staining. The aircraft was also said to be shiny, I don’t actually recall it being particularly shiny but you have to remember he was a wing commander, and hence would have had more attention given to his aircraft and of course it could have been freshly repainted.

The drawing was made by me around the time I met Bill.




Of interest too is that Bill flew one of the Aboukir “Specials” and intercepted a Ju-86p.

“In Egypt, two Supermarine Spitfire VCs fitted with extended wing-tips, boosted Merlin 46s and four-blade propellers operated up to 50,000 ft (15,240 m) to intercept Ju 86P-2s.”

One further note, before I built the model for Bill, I asked him what the colours were on the aircraft, and he stated browns.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Kerry. I certainly recall Bill stating to you that the Spitfire was brown shades. I didn't say anything because I was awaiting your input, but I think that magazine was wrong.

Co-incidentally I know of another Cambridge-connected pilot who also flew Spitfires and intercepted the Ju-86's over Africa.

[tempestwulf]

The picture and caption is in MAM Issue Vol 7, Issue 3. March 2008. Is on page 67 under an article called "Spitfire Patterns and Colours"(Colours & Markings chapter)., covering the more abstract/non-standard scheme likes Kain's Vb, Balkan AF Vc's & Mk XVII's. The article is by a chap called Vasko Barbic I'm sure one of you guys would love to write in about it, bet the editor would appreciate a kiwi replying with so much exact info.

This magazine, along with her sister publications is great reading, it's my bible & motivation sometimes. It must have been really interesting talking with Bill, if it was me I would've been on the edge of my seat like a excited pup.

[Dave Homewood]

Bill was certainly a very interesting chap.

We don't get model magazines in our bookshops round here anymore, so I'll probably never see the article. A scan would be appreciated if possible.

[tempestwulf]

Jun 30, 2008 12:31:47 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Bill was certainly a very interesting chap.

We don't get model magazines in our bookshops round here anymore, so I'll probably never see the article. A scan would be appreciated if possible.

Will see what I can do about the scan once my computers back from the shop (hopefully this weekend), will either plug my scanner in or can take a digital picture of it. Are you only after the caption on Bills Spit V or the whole article?

I'm also up to Hamilton July 19/20 July to visit my (soon to be a mom) girlfriend so would have no quams if you wanted to drop in for a coffee. Can bring the magazine to look at.

[Dave Homewood]

A copy of the article would be appreciated if possible. Regarding the visit up north, remind me closer to the date and I'll see if I can arrange something. Cheers.

[tempestwulf]

In regards to what model to use if building it. I may suggest the Airfix Mk Vb/c (recent issue with seafire parts) as it includes the arbruk filter, 6 stub exhaust and 4 blad prop.

[mumbles]

Jun 30, 2008 12:19:23 GMT 12 tempestwulf said:

The picture and caption is in MAM Issue Vol 7, Issue 3. March 2008.
This magazine, along with her sister publications is great reading, it's my bible & motivation sometimes.

Agreed, that particular issue especially ;D

[kiwichappers]

My penneth worth. Airfix kit OK certainly the wing plan shape is better than Mr Tamiya's. Exhausts and prop look to Ultracast [http://www.ultracast.ca/aircraft.htm#Spitfire] there are none better. While on the Ultracast site check out seats, wheels, cannon barrells and seats they are all superb and accurate.

[tempestwulf]

Oh true, I have looked at those and they're pretty sweet. Used Ultracast resin exhausts on my 1/48 Eduard Tempest giving great depth.

[kiwichappers]

I'd like to see a picture of your Tempest some time. I guess its the kit that I sent you?

[tempestwulf]

Yes sir it is, the resin exhausts look really nice but haven't installed them yet as will be the last thing.

The fuselage is together but the seam needs a bit more cleaning, wings together also but not joined the components as the join isn't flash. Cockpit came up nice but lost interest and went onto another project (1/72 Fujumi Ju 87-D5 - Italian Markings).

With child on the way in 6 weeks I've been trying to get a few projects completed before all my attention goes into my 1/1 scale baby.

[tempestwulf]

Jun 30, 2008 22:50:12 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

A copy of the article would be appreciated if possible. Regarding the visit up north, remind me closer to the date and I'll see if I can arrange something. Cheers.

Here is the best I could do. It's readable I believe but the pics the important part.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for that.

For anyone who's going to model this aircraft it also had a sugnificant dent in the air filter on the port side. Not sure how it occurred. And it was in desert browns, not green and brown as above.

[littlenipper]

Jun 29, 2008 23:16:54 GMT 12 @fockewulf said:

Bill's plane is an interesting subject to me, of course because I knew bill. I am no expert on Spitfire camouflage so I’m happy enough to be proven wrong. It can be seen in many photos of Trops that it was standard practice to overspray the aircrafts Dark green with middle stone. This usually left the aircrafts serial number as an issue, and easy route was taken with this, mask it off. This left an ugly box around the serial that revealed the original Dark Green/Earth. I believe the interpretation of this photo as being Dark Earth/Dark Green/Azure Blue is based on the dark/light areas on the aircraft being the original way around. From the other photos I have seen of EP312 in Bill’s collection there is no box and the serial number is in a primitive font that looks like it was masked off using strips of tape (see my illustration). This particular photo was unfortunately a reproduction / enlargement made by a friend of the family, who kept the original, the process used was very high contrast which has ruined the images contrast. If you have “Spitfire In Action #39” on page 17 there is a photo of EP464 which is in Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey. My best guess would be that the aircraft had a complete respray. The photo of EP312 was taken quite late in the war at a stage when Vb were not considered front line, and she was in the desert where sun and sandblasting would destroyed the paint. The general state of the aircraft was good showing only some fuel staining. The aircraft was also said to be shiny, I don’t actually recall it being particularly shiny but you have to remember he was a wing commander, and hence would have had more attention given to his aircraft and of course it could have been freshly repainted.

The drawing was made by me around the time I met Bill.




Of interest too is that Bill flew one of the Aboukir “Specials” and intercepted a Ju-86p.

“In Egypt, two Supermarine Spitfire VCs fitted with extended wing-tips, boosted Merlin 46s and four-blade propellers operated up to 50,000 ft (15,240 m) to intercept Ju 86P-2s.”

One further note, before I built the model for Bill, I asked him what the colours were on the aircraft, and he stated browns.

I can set you right about this story. There has been so much debate about this.
It was originally only *1* VC Spitfire that was modified & then flown by a British Pilot which then intercepted & shot down the JU86. It was the only Spitfire they had & was the only Aircraft they had available to them.
The reason I know a little more than what people put up on the internet is because the mechanic who modified the original Spitfire VC was my Granddad.
Of course there are so many claims to this event.
There are other details about the modification that i know about but i think sometimes its best to keep some information to yourself.