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Post by mikemercury on Jul 2, 2008 16:18:45 GMT 12
I am seeking out some more information about the August 1943 crash of a Liberator that happened shortly after takeoff from Whenuapai. On board were a group of Japanese interns who were being swapped for POWs in a secret operation. about 15 died including 3 crew. The crash did feature in one of the "Secret New Zealand" documentaries. I am after residents in the area who were witneses of the aftermath, photos of the wreckage, any interesting anecdotal evidence etc. The reasearch is for a proposed film project. You can post me a message with your details and I can get in touch. Thanks.
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Post by Bruce on Jul 2, 2008 16:40:16 GMT 12
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Post by shorty on Jul 2, 2008 21:09:41 GMT 12
Here is a photo of one of the Liberators that came to grief at Whenuapai. When I was a high school (Avondale College) in the early 60s one of the teachers had a good photo of the fuselage being used as a chicked coop. One of the gear legs (the nose one I think) was at MOTAT in the mid 60s and to follow that a view of what remained of the B 17 (which was called the "Texas Tornado")
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 3, 2008 12:35:26 GMT 12
Shorty, that's a great couple of photos. I have heard a lot of first hand eye-witness reports of that Texas Tornado crash, I've met several people who were there including No. 1 GR Squadron personnel who could tell there was an engine running rough, and offered to help the Americans sort if out, but were told in no uncertain terms they knew what they were doing and didn't need help. Result, one crashed B-17 and 10 dead GI's. I also have a friedn who's husband was there and she has a beatiful clock that he made from a section of the propellor he pilfered from the crash site. I've never seen a photo of the crash before, but you can see it was definately a huge explosion as described, no wonder they heard it all across west Auckland.
The Liberator shot is also very interesting. I wonder which one it is. It's not that badly damaged so I doubt it's the one that killed all the Japs.
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Post by alanw on Jul 3, 2008 18:50:22 GMT 12
Re the B 17 Texas Tornado
It's my understanding it had a full bomb load???
If so consider the following typical B17 load:
500lb bombs x8 OR 1000lb bombs x 4
Both combinations = 4 tons of high explosive
I also understand it happened right after take off???
With a bomb load like either one of those above that's sure to be heard along ways off and leave a debris trail like that.
Re the B24, is that parked near where the golf course is now at Whenuapai??
I really enjoy this type of history dialogue you get to learn so much which doesn't come out on TV/Media
Thanks
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 3, 2008 23:05:34 GMT 12
I wondered if the B-24 is near where the fire section is, where that photo that was posted last year of the crashed Electra was?
Yes I believe the B-17 had a full bomb load and it was just off the southern end of the runway on take off. It suffered a catastrophic engine failure and failed to gain height. Very sad.
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Post by shamus on Apr 1, 2009 20:48:13 GMT 12
Hi Mikemercury. The aircraft that crashed at Whenuapai killing the Japanese was actually a C87 the transport version of the Liberator. It had no armament, no turrets or bombays. The best person to see would be, Wesley MacDonald who lives in Castledine Crescent, Glenn Innes, Auckland, who was in charge of the Whenuapai Airbase Hospital that night. He was an eye witness to the crash and its aftermath. Dont leave it too long as like anyone in RNZAF at that time he is getting on in years. I interviewed him many years back and have a substantial file on this crash. You can contact me at, tradejamu@hotmail.com if I can help any further.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 1, 2009 21:26:16 GMT 12
Shamus, are you sure Wesley MacDonald still lives there? There's one W.R. MacDonald listed in the White Pages for Glen Innes but that person is in West Tamaki Road.
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Post by shamus on Apr 1, 2009 22:00:14 GMT 12
Thanks Dave, i'll have to check that out. It is some years since I saw him and he could possibly have gone to a rest home. Castledene Cres. was the address I visited. I dont live far from there so will pay a visit.
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Post by steve on Apr 1, 2009 23:16:50 GMT 12
Yes shamus is quite correct the aircraft was a c87 that landed long and overshot one of the two shorter runways at whenuapai. that would be the one in the picture. The other was a b24 I believe not a c87 that went down in the mangroves near herald island. Jap POWs waded ashore and knocked on local houses doors to get help to the dismay of lscared residents who believed that an invasion had occured. I have the file on the b17 crash but not the liberator crash at herald island. The remains were removed some weeks later. Further information is that Gp Capt G Roberts was the base commander and according to his book "to fly a desk" he was awoken in the early morning about the crash and his first thoughts was why an aircraft would take off in such bad weather conditions?
Another interesting crash research project is the hudson bomber wing and wheel remains that are still visiable at low tide from the upper harbour bridge. My avaition friends and myself managed to get out there some years back. It is a wonder that nobody has not retrieved the final remains of this bomber.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 2, 2009 6:24:36 GMT 12
Steve, a couple of months ago Ryan (Stingray) went out to and took photos of the Hudson. There is virtually nothing left compared with 15 years ago. The tide has really done its damage.
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Post by shamus on Apr 2, 2009 10:40:55 GMT 12
Hi Steve. Just to get it in its correct context. The C87 with Japanese on board who were civil interns not POWs was taking off from Whenuapai when the crash ocurred after it had reached about 700 ft. The Liberator in the photo from Shorty is most probably the RAF T979 which swung off the runway and was extensively damaged. The next one was EW 620 which I think was American and was involved in a taxying accident, but I believe repaired and flew away. I have the accident report on the C87.
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Post by steve on Apr 2, 2009 12:05:46 GMT 12
Thanks for that reminder shamus it does take a little research. I read that the "liberator" reached about that height then veered of to the left and crash in the tide. So i recon it would have been just to the left of the courseway that is there today. Some metal parts are still probably down there if one could pin point the exact site and had a metal detector. Dave when we went out there the whole wing was there with cockles and sea growth all over it and a well intact wheel and tyre that was was so big that i believed it was the c87. I believe the hudson was tying to land at hobsonville. It was like a tressure find although you kept in mind that two pilots died in the crash
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 2, 2009 17:11:03 GMT 12
My understanding was the Hudson were on final approach for Whenuapai. Is that incorrect?
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Post by steve on Apr 2, 2009 20:40:53 GMT 12
Yes dave from my research at national archives it was on a tight turn approach into hobsonville on training when it spun into the tide. I originally thought it was whenuapai as well. However there were about five hudson/ventura crashes over a period of time and i could be wrong. Maybe another researcher could confirm Hobby or Whenuapai?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 2, 2009 20:58:28 GMT 12
Thanks Steve. You're probably right. I may have made an assumption it was Whenuapai they were destined for.
Other Hudson crashes at Whneuapai itself I know of are the No. 1 Squadron machine that crashed into the hangar roof, and a No. 3 Squadron aircraft that crashed on take off due to the pilot not removing frost form the wings.
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Post by fwx on Apr 6, 2009 12:37:15 GMT 12
My Dad told a story of how as a teenager, he and one of his brothers rowed a dinghy from Greenhithe out to the (1943) crash site in the mangroves near Herald Island (Japanese diplomatic personnel and families in transit to imprisonment in the States?). They were suitably impressed by the gorey scene, managed to souvenir some items from the wreckage, and rowed home extra quickly in case they were spotted. The best bit of the oft-told tale was the image of two kids wedged in their kitchen doorway as they tried to get away from one of the liferafts they accidentally inflated in the back yard!
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Post by fwx on Mar 14, 2011 16:01:46 GMT 12
From "Secret deaths", New Zealand Listener, April 10-16 2010:
The death of 12 Japanese nationals in a plane crash near Auckland on August 2, 1943, was a closely guarded secret. Details were not released until more than 60 years later.
The US Liberator bomber crashed into a mangrove swamp just after taking off from Whenuapai air base on the first leg of a secret people-swapping operation. On board the plane, bound for Papua New Guinea via Brisbane, were 22 Japanese nationals, including women and children, three Thais and five US crew. The Japanese and Thais had been living in New Zealand when the Pacific war started and had been interned for more than 20 months. The men were held on Somes/Matiu Island in Wellington Harbour; the women and children in a house near Pukekohe. In 1943 a deal was struck to exchange them for English and American families being held in Japan.
Such was the secrecy of the mission that co-pilot John Wisda didn’t know there were women and children on board. Wisda, who went on to fly Boeing 747 aircraft for United Airlines, died in 2004, but before his death spoke of the accident.
He and the rest of the crew had flown for 26 days straight, shuttling US pilots from Auckland to the frontline fighter airstrip on Guadalcanal, Solomon Islands. “We were exhausted,” he recalled. “We had just gone to bed and at 10 o’clock at night we got a phone call – ‘we have a special trip to go out at midnight’. I was not told what was happening, who was going to be on board or what the cargo was.”
The weather was miserable. “It was raining quite hard … and foggy, cold. It was not exactly a night you wanted to be flying aeroplanes,” said Wisda, “but they said this had to go, so off we went.”
The passengers embarked while he was in the cockpit doing flight checks. He didn’t know who they were or that there weren’t enough seats, forcing parents to hold children on their laps. The bad weather slowed departure, the plane finally taking off at 2.20am. Captain Herschel Laughlin was at the controls. Wisda, beside him, was adjusting the fuel supply and the flaps. At 400 feet Wisda sensed trouble.
“I said, ‘We are turning to the left and he [Laughlin] pointed to the horizon [the gyroscope] and the horizon showed we were climbing straight up [level],” Wisda recalled.
But he convinced the captain the plane was actually banking steeply to the left and was given permission to turn on the left engine turbo-charger. “We just got it straightened out … when we first hit.” The plane was travelling about 320km/h when it belly-landed. Wisda was thrown through the cockpit window “and I rolled end over end about the length of a football field. My body was being whipped by the mangroves.”
He came to next to a burning tyre. “I was holding myself near this tyre in order to keep warm, my right hand was on fire, my right shoulder was dislocated. I did not know what I was doing. It was very hazy and all …”
Wisda was found more than an hour after the crash, the last survivor located. His body was so lacerated that surgeons took 13 hours to clean mud from his wounds.
Although Wisda survived, Laughlin, two crew members and 12 Japanese died. The wounded Japanese were taken to the Whenuapai base hospital where a young airforce woman, Trevar McDonald, was being treated for a minor injury. She was woken and told to leave immediately but as she packed, the injured passengers arrived. “Two little children were put in my bed. They were covered in mud and blood and were crying. Their little hands were hanging onto me. I was getting as much mud and blood on me as they had.”
McDonald was later ordered by airforce officers to “forget everything”. The surviving women and children returned to Pukekohe; the men to Somes/Matiu Island. The dead were quickly disposed of. Waikumete Cemetery’s crematorium was fired up. George Shirtcliffe, a crematorium assistant, was called in before dawn to help. As his boss cremated the bodies, “I did the parts,” George recalled.
Although 15 people died, the crash went unreported in the newspapers.
Wisda says the cause of the crash was clear: pilot fatigue, leading to pilot error. These were the days before pilots did checklists together; Laughlin simply forgot to turn on the gyroscope.
“He thought he was flying level when actually the plane was banking steeply,” Wisda said. “He missed it [the gyroscope]. I was busy. I missed it. There were your causes.”
It was only when contacted 60 years later by a television director that he learnt his passengers included women and children. “I didn’t know that, I didn’t know about the children,” said a shaken Wisda. “That is terribly sad.”
The Japanese eventually left New Zealand by sea.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 14, 2011 16:27:49 GMT 12
Amazing story and a great article, thanks for posting. I wonder how many of those Japanese and Thais actually wanted to go home. Many would have been embassy staff etc but whther or not they all agreed with the Japanese regime is another matter. Still if it got some of our people back, I guess they had to go.
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Post by shamus on Mar 14, 2011 19:11:50 GMT 12
The C87 crash at Whenuapai had two of the crew of five as survivors. In addition to the co-pilot, John Wisda, the navigator, Paul Ullman also survived. Of interest is a photo of John Wisda as a young man (pobably around the age he was as a co-pilot). and a photo of his parents who came to visit the crash site about 15 years after the crash.
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