furd
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 71
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Post by furd on Aug 14, 2016 15:03:47 GMT 12
I commenced BES No 12(?) Course starting in January 1958 (at the tender age of 16yrs and 4mths) and believe this to be that last of the 18 month courses. Thereafter, each BES course was only 12 months. After graduation then went on to T25 Telegraphist course at 2TTS, Wigram. Not sure if this is the forum to post a photo of those who attended T25 Telegraphist course? Your course in January 1958 would have been No 11. I was on course No 10 which started on January 16 1957. It was a two year course, 1st year Boy at the school, 2nd year Boy at No 4 TTS Woodbourne, graduating in December 1958 as an AC1 Eng Mech.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 14, 2016 15:46:03 GMT 12
What on earth did you guys do to occupy your time for so long on that initial year long course? They combined everything into six weeks in WWII and three months in my time. Was it all drill, PT, lectures, shooting and bush exercises? Or was there more to the course back then? Did you do OJT on actual units?
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furd
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 71
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Post by furd on Aug 15, 2016 16:21:12 GMT 12
What on earth did you guys do to occupy your time for so long on that initial year long course? They combined everything into six weeks in WWII and three months in my time. Was it all drill, PT, lectures, shooting and bush exercises? Or was there more to the course back then? Did you do OJT on actual units? All of the above Dave with considerable secondary school lectures for SC/UE which were sat at the end of the year. From memory, it was a full on year and we were always on the go, we were confined to the Base for the first school term (Three terms a year back then) then for the second and third school terms we were allowed into Blenheim once a fortnight on a Friday night under supervision to go to the movies. As 2nd year boys were had considerably more freedom when doing our Engine/Airframe courses at 4 TTS. During our 40th reunion in 1997 we toured the Base including the BES as it was and were amazed at the improvements to the accommodation and the general facilities which we commented on to the NCO conducting the tour. His answer "if we applied the same conditions and discipline today that you guys had, our recruits would all up and leave". We have our 60th reunion next year in February at the Classic Flyer's Museum Mt.Maunganui.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 15, 2016 16:27:03 GMT 12
Aha, so I imagine it was almost like the military schools that you see on TV in the USA, where you're doing the school curriculum plus all the military stuff too. Interesting, thanks for the details.
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Post by camtech on Aug 15, 2016 16:40:44 GMT 12
In '65 we had lectures on Maths, English, Metallurgy, Tech Drawing, Air Force History and Law, plus the usual drill, PT, Active and Passive Defence and supplemented these with Basic Engineering at 4TTS. At the end of the year, we were awarded an RNZAF Educational Certificate, which we were told was halfway between School Cert and UE.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 15, 2016 17:00:28 GMT 12
That sounds the same a what we had with GSTS and 4TTS, total time seven months. They must have cut a lot of the fat out of the courses that was not needed. Makes you wonder how these courses ever got so longwinded in the first place after the high pressure very short courses in WWII were still producing top notch engineers who were considered far better then their US counterparts.
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Post by camtech on Aug 15, 2016 17:13:13 GMT 12
Technical trades (Airframes, Engines, and the avionic trades went on to complete 6 to 9 month long mechanics courses after ACS or BES. Some non tech trades were basically trained when they left, or followed on with shorter basic trade courses. I guess during peace time, they were able to complete more of the academic training than during war time, when the tradesmen were needed at the coal face as quick as possible. A significant number of the original technical tradesmen during wartime came from trades backgrounds and were able to foster the skills of those who followed, to acquire the high reputation that the Kiwis had in terms of trade knowledge and especially adaptability (or the ability to make do, borrow, beg or steal the requisite items).
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 16, 2016 21:40:57 GMT 12
I'm sure you'd include Safety And Surface, Planewright, and Armourers in those Technical trades who had longer courses too? After 4TTS the next course for S&S (Junior Trade Course) was seven months of training, in my day.
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Post by oj on Aug 17, 2016 20:24:55 GMT 12
Hi Joe,
I remember you well from Ohakea where to my recollection you had a beautiful Triumph motorcycle in pristine condition with a white Dolphin fairing. I was chugging about on a Siamesed-piped AJS 650. Regards, OJ
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Post by isc on Aug 17, 2016 23:12:35 GMT 12
I'v still got, and use the fire shovel we made in the welding course{it was the smaller practice one before the test piece that was sent to Wellington}. I took it with me to the reunion in 2014, don't think anyone else still had theirs. isc
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Post by camtech on Aug 19, 2016 14:05:03 GMT 12
I still have the pin vice and machine vice we made during basic engineering. A bit rusty, but has been used a few times.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 19, 2016 14:25:52 GMT 12
I have mine too. Great for cracking macadamia nuts
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Post by isc on Aug 19, 2016 22:13:17 GMT 12
I still use my tap wrench quite often.isc
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Post by camtech on Aug 19, 2016 22:27:05 GMT 12
Ah yes - forgot about that - its in the bottom of the tool box somewhere.
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Post by shorty on Aug 20, 2016 14:34:38 GMT 12
When I was first posted to Woodbourne as a Sergeant all SNCOs were rostered on to spend a night as DNCO at the school baby sitting all the little darlings. Of all the extra duties a SNCO gets landed with it was by far the most unpopular'. At least we had our own room there!
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joebale
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by joebale on Aug 20, 2016 19:59:18 GMT 12
Hi Joe, I remember you well from Ohakea where to my recollection you had a beautiful Triumph motorcycle in pristine condition with a white Dolphin fairing. I was chugging about on a Siamesed-piped AJS 650. Regards, OJ Wow! Yes, it was a 1963 Triumph Bonneville bought new. Also had (acquired a little later) a 1961 AJS 650CSR, a production racing version. I would have attached pics of them but I do not know how (or if I am allowed).
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 15, 2017 15:05:05 GMT 12
The thought just occurred to me, whilst the RNZAF was holding Boy Entrant School courses, what was the initial training system for WAAF's (or was it known as WRNZAF by that time?). Did they do similar year long basic training courses?
What year did the RNZAF start taking Air Force Cadet intakes with both males and females on the same course in mixed Flights?
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Post by shorty on Jul 15, 2017 16:04:23 GMT 12
If you were over 18 you were classed as an adult entrant and you did a 2 month recruit course at GSTS Wigram, this differed from BES in that there was no academic portion and the basic engineering course was 5 months at 1TTS Hobsonville, The recruit course was just the military stuff, square bashing, Air Force law etc. The WAAFs did a 6 week recruit course as they didn't do the weapons training. First thing that we were taught was how to use a washing machine and an iron! Most of the guys had come straight from home where there Mums would have done that for them. If you weren't in uniform you had to wear a tie to all meals (including weekends) and one of the Duty Corporals jobs was to police that.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 15, 2017 16:29:03 GMT 12
Thanks Shorty. By my time in 1989 they had relaxed the tie-everywhere thing but we have to be in collared shirts to enter the Mess or the Canteen, etc. I remember a hoo-haa when Glen Harcus was called out by a GSI in class for being seen and reported as not wearing a collared shirt in the Canteen the night before, and was put on the charge. However Glen argued that he was actually wearing a collared shirt, because in the small country town where he was from in the middle of nowhere, Otago, a rugby shirt was a collared shirt. The powers that be decided that he had a point in that it was a misinterpretation of the language used in the original order that led to an understanding that shirts with collars were acceptable, and so we had a brief lesson on what was a "collared shirt". And we were all satisfied to see sense reigned and Glen was let off the charge.
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ger
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 7
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Post by ger on Sept 20, 2017 20:04:40 GMT 12
I joined as an Airman Cadet in 1975 at age 16 and went to Woodbourne. A lot of my instructors referred to their start as being "Boy Entrants". I haven't given this much thought - ever - but were "Boy Entrants" the same as "Airman Cadets"? If not, when did the terminology change?
And as a matter of interest, when did the concept of "Airman Cadets" cease?
I had a few "Adult Recruits" who passed through GSTS at Wigram on both my courses at 2TTS and were obviously a bit older than me. I gather that GSTS (or whatever it may be called now) went somewhere else when Wigram closed down and assume that the Airman Cadet school at Woodbourne ceased about the same time.
Is this correct?
(Note: I have lived in Australia for more than 30 years and am somewhat out of touch.)
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