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Post by Tonys18 on Feb 11, 2009 20:02:13 GMT 12
Thats a bad idea getting rid of the skyhawks. She made a very very bad move. We need some F-16's hahaha! Well if anything happens I hope they sell skyhawks to people that want em like in the Rukuhia site in 1970 I believe, only 20 pounds for a plane I think hahaha! Once again I was born in the wrond era.
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Post by Kenny on Feb 11, 2009 22:48:25 GMT 12
Money? pha weve got money. Spend it Right is obvously the key thing to do.
Hah. and now we have the 'Key' - lets hope he can get it right.
Reading all that new stuff only angers and sickens me further - i had no idea about the phillipine thing.
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Post by nige on Feb 11, 2009 23:21:22 GMT 12
Thanks Don for the detailed reply (oh the ironies - $200M then v practically nil $ now - best I keep my scathing thoughts of our former PM and Govt to myself)! Incidentally, seeing you did confirm the Philippine connection (as I didn't want to post the blog link earlier in case the author was speculating or misrepresenting the facts etc) the political blog was newzeal.blogspot.com/ and in the article "Locke Shock! Harawira Horror! MPs Under Security Scrutiny?" dated 09 Feb 2009 the fourth "Keith Locke files" link takes the reader to newzeal.blogspot.com/2005/11/keith-locke-wasted-life-part-4-final_30.html where the F16/A4 excerpt came from. [For those interested in politics the blog articles discuss the connections between NZ's "left-wing" politicians and various marxist-type groups etc. The blog author has also written articles for Investigate Magazine on occassion (so it could be fair to call the blog author a journalist in that respect etc). Talking of Investigate, its editor has written how former PM Clark's name appeared on a disc captured from Philippine communist rebels (and apparently the NZSAS has operated against them in recent years, according to other Investigate articles) as a NZ contact. Whether this all forms part of a conspiricy by Labour/Alliance/Clark in 1999 to ditch the F16 deal due to her alleged sympathies with the Phillipine communists etc, probably depends on whether one believes in that sort of stuff (obviously our complacement media wasn't/is no longer interested in such issues)! Well all I can say is that former Labour Cabinet Minister Michael Bassett outlined Clark's role (and others) in the calculated demise of ANZUS www.michaelbassett.co.nz/article_fulbright.htm so I would not at all be suprised in relation to the F16. We also know that axing the Orions by Labour in 2000/01 was also considered so if the next time if a Labour/Green coalition gets in and the ANZAC Frigates get ditched, well by then the dots will truely be joined by a skeptical public although it will be too late]! Thanks FlyNavy too, I too had read Chris Trotter's article supporting a balanced force (which would have to have meant retaining the Skyhawks at the time he first wrote the article in 2001) a few weeks ago and couldn't believe he was so supportive, considering his political beliefs! So why what was is, is probably not a topic for this forum - well I guess he supports the lesser evil i.e. US over China, at least his/our freedoms are intact etc - but good on him for re-raising the issue again lately (despite getting crap back from other leftists)!
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Post by corokid66 on Feb 13, 2009 1:43:36 GMT 12
To replace their F-5’s the Philippines in the late 90s were offered the ex Pakistan F-16’s for US$9m per aircraft. They also were offered eight new build F/A-18D’s for US$390m. Due to a tight cash situation they passed on both. The US then came up with the Kiwi A-4 deal for them. The F-5’s were kept until 2005. In the meantime the PAF is still flying around 4 to 6 Aermacchi S-211’s in the jet trainer / light attack role in the interim until they regain an air combat around 2011. I don’t think the PAF S-211’s have been upgraded at all, unlike the Nigerian Macchi 339A rebuilds that are getting the latest FD digital cockpits, A2A refuelling probes and capability clearance for A/Sh and A2G & A2A missiles (16 aircraft for 80m euros). Still the PAF is keeping its hand in which is commendable and the Nigerians showing that with a little lateral thinking can go a long way.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Mar 13, 2009 11:08:11 GMT 12
www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2258868/Skyhawks-get-tick-of-approvalSkyhawks get tick of approval 13/03/2009 Aviation engineers have given the air force's mothballed fighter jets a clean bill of health after they pulled one apart to check it for water damage.
The Skyhawk was one of 17 stored with a protective latex coating at the Woodbourne air base near Blenheim.
They have been in the open since they were moved out of a hangar in December 2007, and last month Associate Defence Minister Heather Roy confirmed some had been damaged by the weather.
The Labour government decommissioned the air force's air combat wing in 2001 and the Skyhawks had been on the market since then.
Ms Roy said during a tour of the Devonport naval base in Auckland with Defence Minister Dr Wayne Mapp last month, there had been "a little deterioration but no more than you would expect under the circumstances".
Yesterday Parliament's foreign affairs, defence and trade select committee was told some of the aircraft canopies had not sealed properly after a routine maintenance check and some water had got inside the cockpits.
The aircraft were routinely maintained by a civilian contractor.
"As part of this ongoing maintenance programme, an aircraft was disassembled and subjected to a detailed structural survey.
"This deep-level survey found the airframe to be in excellent condition with no corrosion of any significance found," the select committee was told.
"The routine maintenance and this deep-level survey confirm that the Skyhawk fleet remain in excellent condition for sale."
In August last year then defence minister Phil Goff said he had been assured by the United States government it would approve the sale of the Skyhawks within a few months.
The fleet of Skyhawks was sold for $155 million to an American company but the sale had been held up by the US State Department, which must approve any sale of aircraft with American military avionics.
- NZPAJust more PR spin... why they are still trying to talk up the sale is beyond me. Since they are in such "excellent" condition then maybe they should be put back into service so the money that is being spent "maintaining" them isn't wasted!! I believe the airframe in question is NZ6209.
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Post by obiwan27 on Mar 13, 2009 11:51:50 GMT 12
The Skyhawks are 39 years old now. After what, 8 years of no use even if they are structuraly sound it doesn't mean that they are airworthy.....How long will the saga drag on?
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Post by vgp on Mar 13, 2009 12:03:04 GMT 12
That would be this one back in the day:
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Post by shorty on Mar 13, 2009 13:39:08 GMT 12
VGP2011, whats with the "Meladerm" ad??, Whoops, it's changed to another ad, whats going on??
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Post by skyhawkdon on Mar 13, 2009 14:19:25 GMT 12
The Skyhawks are 39 years old now. After what, 8 years of no use even if they are structurally sound it doesn't mean that they are airworthy.....How long will the saga drag on? You have hit the nail on the head - a number of airframes were far from structurally sound due to known fatigue and corrosion issues when they went into storage at Woodbourne in 2001/2002, so I find it "interesting" that after 8 years of sitting around collecting bird shit and dampness these problems have now mysteriously gone away! ;D My understanding is the "inspection" Safe Air have recently done on '09 was not a full servicing to return the aircraft to airworthy condition, just a visual inspection of the engine and airframe. I'm not sure that it is even all back together yet as the last I heard they were trying to find some Avionics people who could test and verify the status of all the Kahu kit... that alone could be a show stopper for returning them to airworthy status. Actually half of the fleet (the ex RAN A-4Gs) are now well over 41 years old, having first flown in mid 1967. The original K's first flew in late 1969/early 1970. Despite this, the G's actually have the lowest airframe hours!
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Post by baz62 on Mar 13, 2009 14:26:24 GMT 12
VGP2011, whats with the "Meladerm" ad??, Whoops, it's changed to another ad, whats going on?? I'd say its to do with the youtube video. Baz
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 13, 2009 14:37:50 GMT 12
My understanding is the "inspection" Safe Air have recently done on '09 was not a full servicing to return the aircraft to airworthy condition, just a visual inspection of the engine and airframe. The article implies it was an inspection for water damage - nothing to do with an inspection to judge airworthiness. All they have done is check if it was leaking. Perhaps they picked on one of the airframes that is not leaking. Hardly even newsworthy.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 13, 2009 14:45:19 GMT 12
I also find it surprising that defence doesn't have its own select committee, seperate from foreign affairs and trade. There are always cross overs but the issues of the defence force are not always to do with foreign affairs and trade.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Mar 13, 2009 17:24:19 GMT 12
I also find it surprising that defence doesn't have its own select committee, seperate from foreign affairs and trade. There are always cross overs but the issues of the defence force are not always to do with foreign affairs and trade. That would imply NZ governments think defence is important
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 13, 2009 17:49:28 GMT 12
Good point Paul.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Apr 8, 2009 10:11:08 GMT 12
Skyhawk Sale Discussed at meeting in Washington... WASHINGTON MEETING: Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully has met with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during his first official visit to the United States. There were new leaders but old topics at the table when a New Zealand delegation travelled to the United States this week. ..." Mr McCully also raised the issue of US approval for the sale of the Royal New Zealand Air Force's Skyhawks and said he was hopeful they would be able to "resolve this item of business inherited by both of us from our predecessors"... - NZPA www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2322580/New-faces-old-issues-at-NZ-US-meeting
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Post by flyinkiwi on Apr 8, 2009 11:58:10 GMT 12
I also find it surprising that defence doesn't have its own select committee, seperate from foreign affairs and trade. There are always cross overs but the issues of the defence force are not always to do with foreign affairs and trade. That would imply NZ governments think defence is important The NZ government only puts as much importance in defence as the NZ voters do and nothing more.
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Post by FlyNavy on Apr 10, 2009 21:30:28 GMT 12
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Post by beagle on May 17, 2009 20:34:29 GMT 12
Just did a trip in the new family vehicle this weekend and had to stop and take a few pic's. Looks like one of them has lost it's tail latex covering and had a clear plastic bag put over the rudder.
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Post by ZacYates on May 17, 2009 20:42:44 GMT 12
I'm quite happy to take that one! I'm sure they can arrange a nice discount for it!
FN, can you explain your graphic for me? I'm struggling to understand any of it?
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Post by FlyNavy on May 17, 2009 21:00:21 GMT 12
Zac, one reason to download the 'whole enchilada' so the hiroglyphics are comprehensible. No? These PDFs are available at various sites. Depending on your downloadable whim they start at 1GB then 1.86GB then 4.4GB. www.a4ghistory.com/ & FileFront at: hosted.filefront.com/SpazSinbad/The 4.4GB version has everything one needs to know about the Skyhawk at a glance - some 4,000 odd glances in fact (1 glance = 1 page of packed to the rafters colour and movement for your delectation). Otherwise the short answer is: "The A4 was designed to deliver an atomic bomb as cheaply as possible which did not include ensuring that the pilot survived his otherwise one way journey to armageddon." Once the mad 50s were past other aircraft specially designed to deliver these weapons took over this role to leave the A4 to do what it does best: irradiate the pilot with depleted uranium radiation from the flight control bobweight under the cockpit floor made of guesswhat. Sadly the graphic of the page you see is dead. Otherwise the PDF page itself comes alive with click on comments that make sense of what you see above. A popup graphic shows in detail the anti radiation hoods (seen in various stages of closing in the greyscale graphic). I never said my PDFs were easy viewing. Otherwise the page has info about books to read about the Skyhawk. This page is in the USN section which has not a lot of role relevance to the Oz/Kiwi experience but nevertheless there it is in a nutshell. ;D You may not be aware that the PDFs were made to resemble RAN squadron line book pages. You see some of these actual pages in the PDF. A level of knowledge is assumed or assumed to accumulate so that sense can be made of all or part of these PDF pages. IF not then I have failed and I'm going to pack up and go home - boohoo. There is a test every morning 8am sharp.
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