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Post by alanw on Feb 7, 2009 11:12:09 GMT 12
Hi all
Just saw Dave's new TBF-1C photo at the bottom of his posts.
I am currently building the Trumpeter TBF-1C, and have been wanting to do one of any of the following
The joker NZ2510, no Known art work (though in my late fathers books, I seem to recall something about it being a Jester type art work, not a deck card)
Donald Duck
Dumbo
Kiwi "Who said the B_ _ _ _ _ Couldn't Fly"
With Dave's Photo of the latter, is it possible to make out the serial number?
Other than that anyone have any additional info on any of the others above ?(in Wally Ingham's book there were two a/c that wore the Dumbo art)
I have seen a few builds with Grumpy NZ2509/Plonky NZ2518, and wanted to do something different.
I know there are other a/c where the artwork/serial are known, but seeing the photo Dave has, has made me wonder if it's possible to do that particular a/c.
Thanks in advance.
Alan
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Post by baz62 on Feb 7, 2009 12:30:41 GMT 12
NZ2504 had Popeye applied even when she was doing the topdressing trials in 1949!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 7, 2009 13:34:17 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 7, 2009 13:36:03 GMT 12
Baz beat me to it on Popeye. However I am sure that the nose art of Popeye was carried through from its wartime days, either that or a seperate one also wPopeye at Gisborne.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 7, 2009 13:37:08 GMT 12
Not nose art but you may like this latest composite, based loosely on a genuine wartime photo:
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Post by baz62 on Feb 7, 2009 15:03:13 GMT 12
Oooooo I like that Dave. And you are correct about NZ2504's nose art being wartime. I saw a photo taken during the war and up til then wasn't aware she had gained nose art. Being one of the batch of Avengers that stayed in New Zealand(she lost her turret fairly quickly and went to Ardmore to provide target towing services for the Corsairs). I had thought the nose art was an operational thing and that something like a target tug would have missed out. Perhaps some of the nose art was done at Gisborne?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 7, 2009 18:11:24 GMT 12
All the nose art was applied at Gisborne for the No. 30 Squadron Avengers, and a number of them were removed when they got to the forward area. Wally's book details about who applied the art at Gisborne, but I cannot lay my hands on my copy right now.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 7, 2009 22:05:14 GMT 12
I'd love to see a photo of that CAF nose art if anyone has one. Northcro??
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Post by alanw on Feb 7, 2009 23:01:44 GMT 12
Dave/Baz/Hairy Thanks for the replies Baz-Popeye was one of the backup choices should any of the others not pan out , Dave; another back up choice considered was the Maori Chief My two favourites though are the Kiwi and Dumbo Dave those coloured photos are absolutly fantastic, job well done!!! ;D ;D I managed to find my copy of "The Avengers" by Wally Ingham. Starting on pg 19 Circa Dec 1943 a Sqn/Ldr Hartshorn gave permission to add personal emblems (reward for training/high moral), then a Sqn/Ldr James didn't want to spoil "his" beautiful aircraft. F/O Fred Ladd (name suited him, he seemed a bit of a lad..) obviously disregarded that last order and promptly organised his emblem being "Plonky" Obviously it took off, as Wally Ingham writes "a Pluto Warren of 30 Sqn Photographic section who had a "flair" for the humorous started organisng the "official designs" for approval". Apparently according to Wally even the locals in Gisborne were involved (sign writers etc) From what I have read, Dumbo the Elephant was the a/c of a P/O Gerry Burton (though as mentioned earlier there were two a/c with that emblem (2nd being a replacement)) In the first lot of photos in Wally's book, there is a photo of a TBF with Donald Duck, but the airforce had not added the last three serial digits to the chin area yet, and the group of airmen block out the tail section aghhh!!! If any of you can find this book it's well worth reading!! ;D Regards Alan
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 8, 2009 11:57:32 GMT 12
I think you mean Air Force, not airforce.
Gerry Burton was a terrific chap, I had the great pleasure to interview him before he passed away. He and his identical twin brother were the first people given dispensation to join the RNZAF with less than the high standard required in academic ahievement, and both became pilots. His brother Jack flew P-40's and was sadly killed, whilst Gerry flew Vincents and TBF's with 8GR and 30 Squadrons respectively. He told me he was also booked onto the Erebus flight that crashed but was forced to pull out last minute! He was disappoitned at first...
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Post by alanw on Feb 8, 2009 13:56:59 GMT 12
I think you mean Air Force, not airforce. That's what happens when you type while you think and then not properly check what you've written ...... Re: Gerry Burton Wow you were able interview Gerry Burton, that would have been really neat, one of a twin too. Wonder if he had any relatives in Christchurch? Knew some Burtons from there.
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Post by philip on Feb 8, 2009 16:34:15 GMT 12
the gisborne avenger
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 8, 2009 16:38:51 GMT 12
Not sure, he was in Nelson when I talked to him but from memory he said his daughter was in Christchurch. I've spoken with a number of ex-30 Squadron people, including Wally of course, as many of them were in 8GR Squadron, and a few in other GR Squadrons.
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Post by alanw on May 25, 2009 20:35:15 GMT 12
Hi all Just have to share this with you!!! I took a copy of Dave's Avenger photo and ran it through Photo Shop and (between my wife and I) have a 98.99999... certainty that I have the serial Number for the RNZAF TBF1-C Avenger that has the Flying Kiwi on the Cowl AKA "Who Said The B_ _ _ _ _ _ Couldn't Fly. I make it NZ 2516 NZ 2518 is Plonky, any way judge for yourselves If This is right, then I now know what's going on the Starboard cowl of my Trumpy Avenger ;D Regards Alan
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 25, 2009 21:01:54 GMT 12
Sorry Alan, but you do realise that photo was a composite I made by adding the Kiwi artwork overlaid on a photo I took myself of Sir Tim's Plonky? That's why the serial reads NZ2518, because it is. The Kiwi serial is still a mystery.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 25, 2009 21:06:15 GMT 12
For the record the following matches are in Wally's book:
NZ2509 - Grumpy (from Snow White) - pilot Peter Steel NZ2517 - Sophisticated Lady in evening gown smoking a cigarette, pilot F/O D. Kennedy NZ2518 - Plonky - pilot Fred Ladd NZ2525 - Maori Chief - pilot unknown
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Post by shorty on May 25, 2009 21:36:23 GMT 12
Sorry Alan, but you do realise that photo was a composite I made by adding the Kiwi artwork overlaid on a photo I took myself of Sir Tim's Plonky? That's why the serial reads NZ2518, because it is. The Kiwi serial is still a mystery. That kind of situation backs up my earlier concerns about photoshopped images appearing on history forums. If people are going to do that I think the photos should be clearly identified as being shopped. What would have happened if the photo had been lifted from here and put onto another forum where the "photoshopper "wasn't aware of it? It almost puts it into the same category as forgery.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 25, 2009 21:46:20 GMT 12
It's not forgery, it's art. I never claimed it was a real photo. I see your point, but so much is photoshopped these days that I don't think I'm the only one who's done this. I actually made it perfectly clear in several posts that my artwork was a compilation of several photos.
Since Photobucket decided to ban me for another month just minutes after my bandwidth reset, it's no longer available anyway.
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Post by alanw on May 25, 2009 21:55:20 GMT 12
Sorry Alan, but you do realise that photo was a composite I made by adding the Kiwi artwork overlaid on a photo I took myself of Sir Tim's Plonky? That's why the serial reads NZ2518, because it is. The Kiwi serial is still a mystery. Hi Dave, Thanks for that, in thinking back on that picture, I think from memory, you have made mention that you had overlayed, I'd just forgotten. Oh well back to the drawing board ;D Thanks Alan
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Post by SEAN on May 28, 2009 12:30:01 GMT 12
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