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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 13, 2010 20:01:16 GMT 12
You may find 57 is the new gate guard at the new gate. If so then I hope they strip everything out of the cockpits so it can all be used in another display - both cockpits were pretty much complete (pre Kahu).
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Aug 18, 2010 15:08:26 GMT 12
Just another interesting article i found today......... It has been said that in this defense white paper China has be identified as a point of "Interest" and that if we align our defense whit paper with that of Australia we may anger China who is one of our main trading partners......... but may i point out so is the rest of South East Asia!!! Read on and I think my point my be made a bit more clear!! US says China's military has seen secret expansion China's People's Liberation Army tests missiles in the South China Sea The growth of China's military is shrouded in secrecy which could give rise to "misunderstanding and miscalculation", a US defence department report says. China has been upgrading its land-based missiles, expanding its submarine force and nuclear arsenal, the Pentagon's annual report to Congress said. It also said that China has extended its military advantage over Taiwan. The report confirms US concerns about the rapid growth of China's military. Frictions China has 1,150 short-range ballistic missiles and an unknown number of medium-range missiles, the report says. Continue reading the main story Related stories China air force drills under way Vietnam puts Paracel row on summit agenda Who's right in South China Sea spat? The billions of dollars in expenditure has been conducted largely out of the public eye, the report alleges. "The limited transparency in China's military and security affairs enhances uncertainty and increases the potential for misunderstanding and miscalculation," it says. Recent commentaries from the Chinese military establishment have complained about large-scale military exercises held by the US and South Korea. They have spoken of an alleged policy of US "encirclement" that threatens China's core interests. China has also criticised what it sees as unwarranted interference by the US in one of those core interests, China's claim to much of the South China Sea. US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently told a regional summit in Vietnam that it supported non-Chinese claimants to the sea. The training marked 15 years of normalised relations between the US and Vietnam The US also recently held a week of visits and training exercises with Vietnam. Washington is also embarking on a new round of exercises with South Korea which it describes as purely defensive. Military-to-military contacts between the US and China have been suspended and China refused to meet US Defence Secretary Robert Gates. "It's been ambiguous over the past several months," a senior defence official told the Associated Press when asked about the Pentagon's view of its relationship with China. Far reach The Pentagon suggests that China's purchases show a growing military reach beyond its borders, and beyond Taiwan. "The balance of cross-Strait military forces continues to shift in the mainland's favour," the report said, regardless of improving political and business ties with Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou. And China was "already looking at contingencies beyond Taiwan," it says, citing work on longer-range missiles that could reach the Pacific. "Current trends in China's military capabilities are a major factor in changing East Asian military balances and could provide China with a force capable of conducting a range of military operations in Asia well beyond Taiwan," it said. The report alleges this reach could go beyond traditional boundaries of Okinawa in Japan and the South China Sea to Guam, mainland Japan and the Philippines. In March this year, China said it would increase its defence budget by 7.5% to 532bn yuan ($77.9bn, £50bn), less than the usual double-digit increases. The US annual military budget is about $700bn (£448bn). The Pentagon said it wanted dialogue with China to avoid any "miscalculation" between the two militaries. Have a look at the following link for a photo of the area being talked about!! Its not that far away from us and we do have interest in keeping that region stable!! www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10995111
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 18, 2010 17:56:05 GMT 12
Good articles there, but I doubt the current Government here will take the emerging military threat from China seriously enough to warrant a significant change in direction/focus for the NZDF (even if the Defence Review is bold enough to openly state China is a threat to regional security and stability).
Australia on the other hand has taken a quite different view and China is the (unstated) reason they are spending up large on hardware and war fighting capability (unlike NZ the ADF doesn't exist primarily for "Peacekeeping"!).
Only time will tell who is right - Australia or NZ. I know who my money is on!
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Post by Ykato on Aug 21, 2010 8:08:00 GMT 12
Leaked Doc Hints NZ May Get New SAR Aircraft By NICK LEE-FRAMPTON Published: 20 Aug 2010 11:54 WELLINGTON - New Zealand's Defence Review 09, to be released next month, may call for acquisition of less sophisticated new aircraft for a search-and-rescue (SAR) and surveillance role, according to a document leaked to the media following the Aug. 17 resignation of Associate Defence Minister Heather Roy. Asked about the potential acquisition plan, a spokesman for Defence Minister Wayne Mapp said only that the minister has "on a number of occasions talked about the need for capability around short-range maritime patrol. 'There are potentially a number of capability solutions to this, some of which could use essentially civilian aircraft with specific role equipment," the spokesman said Aug. 20. "However, the white paper is not yet completed, and the extent to which it prioritizes short-range maritime patrol and proposes capability directions is not yet known." Roy was forced to resign her post - which was created for her and now no longer exists - because she was replaced as deputy leader of the ACT party, part of New Zealand's coalition government, by the party's caucus. The 82-page leaked document focuses on her disputes with ACT leader Rodney Hyde, and offers no other details of the draft review, which was circulated among government officials in June. The public version of the review, the defense white paper, was originally scheduled for release in March but postponed until September. The Royal New Zealand Air Force's current SAR fleet - six Lockheed P-3K Orions - is being upgraded, although the work is several years behind schedule due, in part, to software integration problems. Just days ago, an Orion was used to search for survivors of a sunken fishing vessel. The aircraft regularly flies SAR missions deep into the South Pacific and the Southern Ocean. From time to time, suggestions are made to replace the Orions with a commercial airframe that would undertake such tasks more cost-effectively. The DHC-8 Dash 8 used by Australia's customs service is considered a candidate. Australia's fleet of 10 was recently modified for a civil maritime surveillance role. On March 7, Mapp said he was delaying the review's release to find savings of 50 million New Zealand dollars ($35.75 million). www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4750734&c=ASI&s=AIR
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Aug 23, 2010 21:04:45 GMT 12
Well looking at things as they are now i am inclined to agree with you Skyhawkdon, And the article above is similar to the thread on the RNZAF getting the C-295 or Q300, i'm still hoping for a C-295 deal.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 23, 2010 22:12:47 GMT 12
Apparently John Key has been talking today about New Zealand's threat from "boat people" so hopefully this will lead into the purchase of more maritime patrol aircraft so our coasts are adequately covered from unwanted arrivals.
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Post by nige on Aug 24, 2010 21:44:12 GMT 12
Leaked Doc Hints NZ May Get New SAR Aircraft By NICK LEE-FRAMPTON Published: 20 Aug 2010 11:54 WELLINGTON - New Zealand's Defence Review 09, to be released next month, may call for acquisition of less sophisticated new aircraft for a search-and-rescue (SAR) and surveillance role, according to a document leaked to the media following the Aug. 17 resignation of Associate Defence Minister Heather Roy. * * * * * * The 82-page leaked document focuses on her disputes with ACT leader Rodney Hyde, and offers no other details of the draft review, which was circulated among government officials in June. The public version of the review, the defense white paper, was originally scheduled for release in March but postponed until September. I'm confused Here's the "leaked document" and I can't see any reference to "new aircraft for a search-and-rescue (SAR) and surveillance role", let alone something that could be "less sophisticated". media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/Heather%20Roy's%20leaked%20documents2.pdf So not sure how defense news came to that conclusion. Unless perhaps I need an eye test Edit: something wrong with the NZHerald URL link above, instead cut-and-paste the above URL into a browser to view (once the PDF downloads).
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Aug 26, 2010 12:23:22 GMT 12
Why would they bother releasing leaked documents anyway the White paper will be out within the next 30-35 days!!! But as far as i understand it i think the leak about the possibility of the new MPA was because some other minister was probing into the defense review to try to undermine Roy.
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Aug 26, 2010 12:58:35 GMT 12
OH and just to add the NZDF statement of intent 2010-2013 has been released I would have thought they would have released this after the review???
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 26, 2010 15:08:16 GMT 12
That would be logical you would think! A case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing? In my experience this is very common in bureaucratic Gov't Departments!
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Post by 30sqnatc on Aug 26, 2010 18:19:48 GMT 12
OH and just to add the NZDF statement of intent 2010-2013 has been released I would have thought they would have released this after the review??? NZDF making the point to the government the publication of the review is well overdue ;D
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Post by sirbean on Aug 27, 2010 11:25:53 GMT 12
New Zealand is a small country with an ageing population base,we have more pressing issues to deal with such as 21st century health care for all New Zealanders,better education for our kids and a retirement scheme for us when we retire. I was dissapointed when our Air Combat Force was "knocked on the head"...however to think we need F/A18 Hornets is unrealalistic and unfeasible or any other combat aircraft. However to re-actativate the Macchi fleet as an an advanced trainer with the ability to provide close air support makes sense...lets face it we own them..they are still airworthy and flown on a regular basis...it makes sense to re-activate this fleet. As for the Skyhawks they will only be scrapped...and this hurts to say this but if one views in person the huge boneyards of ex military aircraft in the USA one will soon understand. Air Combat is changing fast in 2018 the USN will have the first unmanned aircraft a smaller version of the B-2 Stealth bomber called the X-45 this can be used in multi roles and has no pilot. Look at the F-22 Raptor still has classified performance can turn inside itself...you should see this thing at an airshow you will be stunned by its performance.....New Zealand can and will never need an Air Combat Force again we simply do not need one or could afford one.
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Post by obiwan27 on Aug 27, 2010 12:30:15 GMT 12
sirbean the things you pinpoint are the things that most New Zealanders 'want' for the future but the problem is what 'we' want and what 'we' can afford to pay for as far as Public Health, Education and retirement are two different things as far as our country goes. NZ does not earn enough money as a country to fund all the largesse of the above and borrows heavily. Most level headed members of this forum accept that we will not have an Air Combat Wing again but we as a nation need to have a Defence Force that is properly equipped and funded for the future, hence the Defence White Paper. Your own grasp of such matters seems so jumbled, confused and out of touch of the reality of NZ's defence needs that it's hard taking much of what you say seriously.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2010 12:34:44 GMT 12
Welcome to the forum sirbean. You're welcome to your opinions but I don't agree with your reasoning here.
- We have an aging population = we have less people who can stand up for themselves and thus need to have better government funded protection for our citizens - Better education for our kids - New Zealand has one of the best education systems in the world and already masses of money is poured into it. I don't think they need any more money than what they currently are allocated personally - a proper education usually comes outside of school anyway. Give them all a year in the Air Force and we'll have a far better and brighter society. - Retirement scheme - We have plenty of schemes for retirement. But without a decent defemce force there may be slavery rather than retirement by the time you and I get to that age. the world is extremely unstable. China is gearing up big time militarily. Only yesterday it was announced that North Korea is preparing to attack South Korea with a huge force right on the border. People think Indonesia is incapable of war despite their intentions, but they only need to be backed by a rogue state like North Korea or China to really kick off.
Right now the region is unstable, and that is not counting the threat of terrorism too.
Your attitude of we don't need it and cannot keep up with technology is identical to the attitudes of New Zealanders in the late 1920's and 1930's. They thought the idea of war was behind them and we'd never have to fight again. They thought spending money on defence was wasteful and pointless, and it was better poured into education and roads and other things. As you know, things were not as rosie as the people thought. Between 1939 and 1945 we had amassed a huge air force with all the modern equipment, infrastructure and personnel needed to not only defend New Zealand from any attack but to take the fight to the world. That is just a few years after everyone thought war would never come again and we had no way of catching up with modern military technology.
People swore back then that they would never leave New Zealand as undefended again as they had really let the country down. Well modern politics is letting it down again. The threat is still there and always will be. We could equip with new squadrons and people will still get educated and still retire, in a much more secure environment I might add too.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 27, 2010 12:54:32 GMT 12
Brilliantly said Dave! Ever thought of becoming a politician? The cost of having a modest Defence Force needs to be kept in perspective in terms of the country's overall GDP and % of Government spending. Whichever way you look at it we spend a pathetic amount on Defence compared to the other areas of Government spending. To me it is a matter of choice, we either want to be a free first world country or we don't. If we do then there is a (small) price we have to pay for that freedom. Freedom is "Free" - it is paid for in blood. I suggest Sirbean does some reading on the price NZ has paid for its freedom through WWI and WWII. For 60 odd years we could "afford" a modest air combat capability. The decision to scrap it had nothing to do with the cost of maintaining it - it was pure vindictive politics! Helen Clark had a personal vendetta and followed it through... To say we can't afford it is one thing, but to claim we don't need it is very short sighted (I'm yet to meet anyone who can predict the future!).
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2010 13:01:54 GMT 12
Ever thought of becoming a politician? Oh dear, I didn't think it was that bad...
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Post by sirbean on Aug 27, 2010 14:50:18 GMT 12
Iam sorry folks but you are so wrong with your attitudes. The world is stable..no one will defeat terrorism you have to live with it until the difference between our beleives can be tolerated. New Zealand is a great country but we are not and will never be one of the big boys...if that were the case we would have played a bigger part in the first Gulf War and at that time we had a capable Air combat Force. As for health and education and retirement,these are areas that need more investment....not defence.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 27, 2010 15:19:20 GMT 12
Before I waste any more of my time responding to your post Sirbean can you perhaps enlighten us whether you made a written submission to the recent Defence Review?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2010 16:20:11 GMT 12
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Post by sirbean on Aug 27, 2010 16:21:45 GMT 12
Skyhawkdon you need to stop living in the past and get over the fact Helen Clark laid you off. Yes I did make a submission as I have a friend as an Officer in the Navy and a relation in the Army. Both state that both their respective Forces lack personnel and have expensive equipment including ships and LAV's that are laid up and not used due to a lack of personel to operate them. In the Army's case the SAS on current deployment use United States transport systems...so it beggs the quetion why do we need these LAV's. It's just common sense stuff if we dont need it dont have it. I am not against the Defence Force but we are a small maritime nation we need to put our Defence dollars to areas where they are needed now and in the future...maritime patrol,transport and helicopters....not strike aircraft...the past is the past...time to move on.
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