|
Post by mcmaster on Jun 2, 2018 17:17:38 GMT 12
Chinese foreign investment has been strong for a while now with Goverments starting to try and put the brakes on sensitive investments. The blocking of Ausgrid's sale in NSW (the power grid) comes to mind. The Port of Darwin one that got thru much to the annoyance of the US. I think the militarisation of these investments is another level again. The South China Sea is interesting because it seems to show how China is willing to do what was essentially a military invasion. If that works why not draw another line down to Tonga with air defence zones. As you suggest maybe people shouldnt be surprised when China wants to harden on all their soft power growth..
|
|
|
Post by isc on Jun 2, 2018 22:18:31 GMT 12
One local Chinese owns 70 plus properties. Go into almost any shop and look at the label on any of the stock, where was it made? The most sure way of take over is via the economy. Those properties were bought with loans from guess where. isc
|
|
|
Post by Peter Lewis on Jun 3, 2018 9:49:13 GMT 12
Closer to our neck of the woods if we are doing comparos Singapore population of around 5m and a fast jet force the envy of many. And have the high levels of taxation to pay for it. Someone mentioned Sweden. I am going there in three weeks time, so I am doing some research on their economy. Average income tax level in Sweden is a tad over 61% A few years ago someone there on a high income worked out that their own marginal tax rate (the rate of tax you pay on the last dollar of your income) was 102% !!!
How much tax are you, personally, prepared to pay?
|
|
|
Post by saratoga on Jun 3, 2018 9:58:40 GMT 12
When you take into account the lower and upper incomes in NZ pay no,or negative tax,and the tax take is mainly from the middle incomes we are probably at 60-70% already.I just want my moneys worth!
|
|
|
Post by madmac on Jun 3, 2018 11:15:11 GMT 12
Swedens economy is worth something like 30% bigger than NZ's for the a similar cost base. This results in their governments total income being twice that of NZ (a 2 minute comparison).
The bitching and moaning in some quarters about the piss poor performance (importantly per capita) of NZ economy is quite legitimate and impacts every aspect of life here (noting that we have been in comparative decline for the last 100 years).
|
|
hughw
Flying Officer
Posts: 58
|
Post by hughw on Jul 8, 2018 16:55:31 GMT 12
Ron Mark was asked about the possiblity of a strikeforce reestablishment at 12:05 in this interview.
|
|
|
Post by snafu on Jul 8, 2018 18:50:09 GMT 12
Ron Mark was asked about the possiblity of a strikeforce reestablishment at 12:05 in this interview. Too little too late, while I love for NZ to invest in an ACF, if media and NZ in general are complaining about 2b NZD for 4 aircraft then I hate to see wait spending 6b on F35 an aircraft that will see service and stay relevant until 2050
dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/belgium_17-80.pdf
unless you want to cheap out with something that will be irrelevant in within 15 years right about FOC in NZ case
dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/slovakia_18-10_0.pdf
Personaly id like the money invested in increasing ASW/AEW overwatch capability, but if Ron can get the budget rsaised to 2% gdp stranger things have happened.
dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/kuwait_17-78.pdf
|
|
madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
|
Post by madmark on Jul 8, 2018 22:07:49 GMT 12
Why would you have AEW with no FJ capability? That makes no sense. Pretty sure a Sqn of F-16s would be a lot cheaper and quicker to stand up than some wedgetails..
|
|
|
Post by madmac on Jul 8, 2018 23:24:49 GMT 12
An effect ACF with F16 or F35 in a country with a minimum distance of 2000 miles of water in any direction, would require a not insignificant fleet of tanks to allow they any effect range carrying decent sized & effective quantity of Anti shipping missiles. It would be unfortunate to start with a clean sheet ACF and repeat all the same old mistakes of failing to take advantage of NZ strengths and going with the cheapest or shiniest options (plus the wide spread over estimation of allies reliability).
|
|
|
Post by snafu on Jul 9, 2018 4:02:00 GMT 12
Why would you have AEW with no FJ capability? That makes no sense. Pretty sure a Sqn of F-16s would be a lot cheaper and quicker to stand up than some wedgetails.. I didn't mention anything about a wedgetail buy in, but I did say id like to increase the information gather capability across the spectrum.
information means security for reaction a small force like the NZDF needs situation awareness like everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by alanster on Jul 9, 2018 10:27:47 GMT 12
|
|
|
Post by alanster on Jul 9, 2018 10:43:58 GMT 12
Foothold? You've not been to Auckland lately have you? China owns most of the Pacific already, including a significant amount of New Zealand. Why do people have this notion they plan to start invading with military force? They are already here and they bought up companies, businesses, real estate farms, all over New Zealand the Pacific, and the companies not yet owned by them trade with them and often owe them money. They also own very sizeable chunks of the USA, Canada, Australia, and other nations. Why would they start a shooting war and risk destroying all their own assets when our immigration and commerce laws allow them to come and take over much more simply and cheaply? And they are a major influence on our current government so nothing is likely the change. If a NZ government ever tried to push back on what has already happened and force the foreign ownership out, that is when you'll have to worry about the military force from China. Right now they quite comfortably come and go as they please. Furthermore, take a look at the inordinate number of Chinese donors for the National party (by far the highest funded party in NZ's political system). www.stuff.co.nz/national/103655890/the-national-party-was-donated-three-times-more-money-than-labour-last-year--but-labour-won
|
|
|
Post by fishing2day on Jul 10, 2018 11:07:59 GMT 12
A fast jet pilot needs at least thirty hours a month of actual in the sky flying time to stay competent. Now, if you assume we buy a force of at least 20 fast jets to be useful and ideally have 25-30 pilots rated to fly them that equates to 750 hours a month at least of flight hours.
Now, in 2016 an F-16 cost US$20,398 per flight hour. That is around NZ$28,000. So we are looking at a minimum of $21,000,000 a month and $252,000,0000 per annum to keep 25 pilots up to flight spec, before we even talk about the additional cost of weapons, software and sensor upgrades, the lead in program trainers, salaries, buildings and all the other infrastructure. Let's say the total bill is $350,000,000+. That would represent somewhere between 15-20% of ALL defense spending. And for what?
We would have 20 jets that couldn't do anything an equivalent RAAF/USAF/USN/USMC jet could do, and whose deployments would purely symbolic. So the bulk of the fleet would probably spend their whole time doing what the Skyhawks did - zooming around NZ showing the flag. We would be spending 350 million or more for a flying display team for the public to ooohhh and ahhhh over.
The cost vs. capability numbers just don't stack up for a fast jet force. That is not to say that some time in the future they might, but at the moment until someone can come up with a compelling reason to speed 350-400 million dollars a year of taxpayer dollars on fast jets we won't get any.
|
|
madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
|
Post by madmark on Jul 10, 2018 13:13:13 GMT 12
Interesting figures there. According to the US Air Force times, USAF F-16 drivers only need about 17hrs per month to stay current. For newer platforms like the F-35 this is further reduced with pilots being able to maintain most currencies in the sim, not that i’m Advocating an F-35 purchase.
|
|
|
Post by fishing2day on Jul 10, 2018 13:17:26 GMT 12
Interesting figures there. According to the US Air Force times, USAF F-16 drivers only need about 17hrs per month to stay current. For newer platforms like the F-35 this is further reduced with pilots being able to maintain most currencies in the sim, not that i’m Advocating an F-35 purchase. I got mine second hand, but apparently from the US DoD. I guess there might be a difference between staying current and maintaining combat efficiency? There are plenty of ex-air force bods here who will know, and then we can plug that into the numbers...
|
|
dodgy
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 89
|
Post by dodgy on Jul 10, 2018 13:19:22 GMT 12
And of course the future of this sort of combat aviation is unmanned anyway, so lets just wait till then. How many UAVs could be purchased for the cost of one P8?
|
|
|
Post by kiwiruna on Jul 10, 2018 14:45:51 GMT 12
While it would be nice UAVs have a way to go before they are at a point where they can do Air Combat.I believe there is a lag time of something like 1 to 2 seconds between pilot input and it activating the control surfaces/weapons.Which would be a problem if you were up against a manned aircraft.2 seconds is either a really short time or really long time depending upon what you are doing.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 10, 2018 14:52:16 GMT 12
Yawwwwwn. I should move this thread into the Flight Simulator board with all the other fantasy air force stuff...
|
|
|
Post by 30sqnatc on Jul 10, 2018 17:14:37 GMT 12
|
|
|
Post by machina on Jul 10, 2018 18:08:18 GMT 12
How about some Hawks?
|
|