hughw
Flying Officer
Posts: 58
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Post by hughw on Jul 10, 2018 19:11:33 GMT 12
The most realistic option is Singapore basing their F-15's at Ohakea but even that seems to have stalled
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Post by isc on Jul 11, 2018 0:07:10 GMT 12
Or maybe something home brew from Hamilton. isc
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Post by snafu on Jul 11, 2018 14:23:44 GMT 12
Geez if you want it enough and need it enough it can be achieved, the problem now is that it’s over a generation since NZDF could conduct full spectrum medium- high intensity combat capability. Because you have not seen it for so long it can’t be achieved, look at the end of the Cold War years 1980’s and see what 2% did for you and remember it was more man power intensive. It takes the will of the government and now we have the give me generation what’s in it for me😤
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Post by mcmaster on Jul 11, 2018 16:27:06 GMT 12
The most realistic option is Singapore basing their F-15's at Ohakea but even that seems to have stalled How is this related to NZ restoring its FJ Combat Force? True if it happens you will have FJ in country for people to see (and no doubt hear) but that's it...these aircraft will be under nothing other than RSAF command. With the emerging power play in the region and NZ's new 2018 Strategic Defence Policy Statement specifically calling out China as a threat, who is to say both NZ and Singa's interests will always align?
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Post by mumbles on Jul 11, 2018 16:54:18 GMT 12
Yawwwwwn. I should move this thread into the Flight Simulator board with all the other fantasy air force stuff... I dunno, nobody has suggested A-10's backed up by AC-130's as an ideal force mix yet (as I've seen elsewhere ).
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Post by 30sqnatc on Jul 11, 2018 17:10:59 GMT 12
Geez if you want it enough and need it enough it can be achieved, the problem now is that it’s over a generation since NZDF could conduct full spectrum medium- high intensity combat capability. Because you have not seen it for so long it can’t be achieved, look at the end of the Cold War years 1980’s and see what 2% did for you and remember it was more man power intensive. It takes the will of the government and now we have the give me generation what’s in it for me😤 I wonder how the buying power of 2% of todays governments spending equates to 2% of 1980's spending
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Post by snafu on Jul 11, 2018 19:23:10 GMT 12
Geez if you want it enough and need it enough it can be achieved, the problem now is that it’s over a generation since NZDF could conduct full spectrum medium- high intensity combat capability. Because you have not seen it for so long it can’t be achieved, look at the end of the Cold War years 1980’s and see what 2% did for you and remember it was more man power intensive. It takes the will of the government and now we have the give me generation what’s in it for me😤 I wonder how the buying power of 2% of todays governments spending equates to 2% of 1980's spending Well to rebuild you might need to give a bit more in the short term depending what capability NZG wants, but removing the captain charge in the short term would go a long way to rebuilding ghost of defence past
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Post by machina on Jul 17, 2018 10:46:18 GMT 12
Let's get the new Tempest yeah?
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Post by frankly on Jul 19, 2018 0:17:27 GMT 12
The Whinery Report looked at a few different force mixes for operating a smaller force more closely tied to allies.
ACF could be reinstated with a minimum buy of 14 aircraft. One squadron of 12 and a pair for OCU, all run tightly with the ADF for the near term (and that means F-35). Forget about independent doctrine or anything too fancy. Tight integration with a a contract workforce supporting the aircraft, and tying the support systems to ADF would make it viable, but you'd need to commit to their upgrade path as well. Something could be done with a cadre of perhaps 20 pilots in squadron and OCU and maybe 25 grounds supported by the same number of ground contractors again. Or perhaps a political deal could be done for a hybrid NZ-USMC unit, which would have some appeal. Hard to see us using fast air without the US involved.
The biggest obstacle is there are very few Nucs left in the RNZAF, and the psyche of the org is the biggest obstacle. There simply aren't the very aggressive alpha-types around to operate an aggressive strike unit any more.
Then there's the other factor - in 1990/91 the A4s weren't used in ODS in part because we couldn't sustain them. Similarly for Timor we didn't have the support to bring the A4s into position and support the group and naval elements. Ultimately those two events that could have showcased the ACF didn't happen, and that ultimately killed off the capability.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 19, 2018 0:40:47 GMT 12
The biggest obstacle is there are very few Nucs left in the RNZAF, and the psyche of the org is the biggest obstacle. There simply aren't the very aggressive alpha-types around to operate an aggressive strike unit any more. Transfer some in from the Army. They did this successfully enough during WWII when building up the fighter force.
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Post by snafu on Jul 19, 2018 4:30:32 GMT 12
Then there's the other factor - in 1990/91 the A4s weren't used in ODS in part because we couldn't sustain them. Similarly for Timor we didn't have the support to bring the A4s into position and support the group and naval elements. Ultimately those two events that could have showcased the ACF didn't happen, and that ultimately killed off the capability. ill have to try and find it again, this came up on another forum I visit(cant remember which one) but the main reason why the A4 was not used came down to airlift. as they were in Butterworth on ex along with the RAAF.
The warning order came in to move and the RAAF sent in the C130 to move them back again funny story from KIwi perspective one minute the RAAF there when they got up in the morning they were gone. logistics is the unsung hero of defence. unfortunately for you Kiwis you just don't have enough resources to move when the situation changes allright in peace time but when the Sh#t hits the fan well...
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Post by nuuumannn on Sept 4, 2018 19:14:22 GMT 12
New TempestIt's a fearsome lookin' beastie, so it is...
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Post by suthg on Sept 4, 2018 20:28:58 GMT 12
Where are the 4 x 20mm cannons and the 8 Rockets with 6" explosive warhead?? Funny...
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Post by nuuumannn on Sept 4, 2018 21:04:46 GMT 12
Don't get too excited mate! It's not a Typhoon!
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Post by saratoga on Sept 4, 2018 21:20:31 GMT 12
Even that TTT(Target Tug Tempest) would have to be funded by a PPP.
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Post by isc on Sept 5, 2018 0:16:48 GMT 12
The Tempest V had shot barreled cannons, so the gun ports would be taped over, don't kmow about the rocket rails. isc
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Post by machina on Nov 24, 2018 10:12:44 GMT 12
No doubt giving this subject another poke will annoy the admin but I'm bored and my girlfriend isn't interested in discussing hypotheticals with regard to our military, so: thoughts on a modest reinstatement with <20 Hawks?
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Post by saratoga on Nov 24, 2018 10:34:34 GMT 12
no, might be time to get a new girlfriend...
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Post by horicle on Nov 24, 2018 12:18:13 GMT 12
I will refer you to Air International Vol 21 page 242 (the issue of Nov 1981) where it appears Roy Braybrook beat you to it. He suggested then, in a very good A-4 article, that the BAe Hawk would make a good low cost replacement for our Skyhawks. Doomed. The Hawks day is gone, the new kid on the block is the Scorpion. Of course it to is doomed because the USAF will not buy it so there is little hope of international sales (F-20 comes to mind).
1. They didn't think of it.
2. If they did the treasury accountants would have a field day asking why does everything else cost so much?
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Post by snafu on Nov 25, 2018 8:03:47 GMT 12
No doubt giving this subject another poke will annoy the admin but I'm bored and my girlfriend isn't interested in discussing hypotheticals with regard to our military, so: thoughts on a modest reinstatement with <20 Hawks? interesting but it might be easier tagging onto the Canadian fighter replacement program, that's going so well that you will have aircraft just intime for the F35 replacement
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